Impacted crop on a severely underweight hen - how to treat?

[rebrascora]

Oh man, definitely hoping not to have to do crop surgery, that definitely sounds intimidating / something I'd rather not have to do but I'm open to whatever needs to be done. Was it a sour crop for your girl by this point? Thank you for the resource!

No, none of mine have gone sour even when they had been impacted for more than 2 weeks. The one I did surgery on, I removed a soft ball sized mass of soggy tangled vegetation which had clearly been there for a long time, but it didn't smell bad at all. It was just plugging the outlet from the crop and preventing food and fluids passing down into her system. It felt soft and squishy. The others I had were also quite soft so I assume they were also soggy vegetation. One was like putty that you could feel hold the shape you squeezed it into until you squeezed it again if that makes sense. Many people assume if it is squishy that it is sour but that is not the case in my experience. The smell will tell you if it is sour.

 

[rebrascora]

Just as an aside, there are concerns about using a whole grain feed like Scratch and Peck and you need to be careful about how you feed it as it can lead to an array of serious health issues if fed incorrectly. This is because some hens will selectively eat their favourite components of the feed if they are able to do so actively billing it out onto the ground so that they can get to the bits that they like. Usually the favourite bits are the high carbohydrate grains, which means that they do not get a balanced diet and are low in protein and calcium and vital vitamins and essential amino acids, the last 3 being mostly in the fine powdery stuff that gets left in the bottom of the feeder. If they have access to this type of feed from a feeder all day long, they will be more likely to be selective about which bits they eat and over time this can lead to reproductive disorders and or Fatty Liver Haemorrhagic Syndrome which can cause birds to die suddenly if their liver ruptures. Fermenting it and just feeding a rationed amount each day I am told helps to ensure that they get all the nutrients they need from it, but if it is just in a hanging feeder to help themselves ad lib, it is potentially risky to their health. If thy bill it out of the feeder, it also encourages rodents to come on a night and clear up the stuff they don't want to eat. I hate waste and I hate rodents, so these are 2 very good reasons not to feed it in that manner without the health risks to the hens. It is also not cheap to buy and most people think they are giving their chickens the best by buying this feed. Also, it would be very wise to provide grit and crushed oyster shell in separate dishes near the feeder if you are using such a whole grain feed.

 

[MissChick@dee]

Hi again.

Just to clarify, the term is LASH egg not mash egg which was a typo on Michelle's part, I'm sure. It looks like it could be lash egg material from salpingitis or possibly a cecal core, as a result of coccidiosis. The fullness between her legs suggests it is more likely to be salpingitis.

If her crop is impacted and her whole digestive tract is stopped back then giving her any oral medication is going to have a very limited effect and the long term prognosis for salpingitis is not good. The vet may be able to inject the antibiotics and perhaps show you how you can do that yourself, but considering how much weight she has lost you are going to struggle to find any muscle to put a needle into and bearing in mind that she probably has a terminal reproductive disorder, it might be kinder to end her suffering now. I'm sorry that sounds so negative and I know it will not be what you want to hear but I believe it is important to be realistic in these cases.

Dang autocorrect!

 

[ChickenMama308]

Are you still giving her Corid? If you are don't give any vitamins until you finish the course of treatment.

The stool softener should be fine alone with the antibiotics. You just want to find one that is stimulant free. It's not just the spinach to eliminate with the Oxy, it would include dairy products as well - cut out the yogurt - wait until you finish all treatments, then add vitamins and probiotics/yogurt.

If you have care, that would be best.
It's possible what she expelled could have been Cecal Core, but with your initial concerns and the other symptoms, personally I would think it's a reproductive problem like Salpingitis.

She is no longer taking corid. I was going to take her to the vet today, but maybe I'll try a stool softener first - I wonder if it was grass or other organic matter like pine needles in her crop, if the stool softener would help to break it down or not? I'm trying to figure out what I can feed her to nourish her that doesn't have vitamin c, dairy etc. while she's taking Oxytetracycline antibiotic.. any thoughts? Trying to keep it a liquid diet for now I guess as she's impacted. We're on day 3 of 5 of this medication. You said, 'If you have care, that would be best.' Was that a typo or what exactly do you mean by that?

I would hope it was cecal core if that is a better thing in the long run for her, she has had some yellow in her poo the past handful of days but its hard to say if its coming from her or from the Oxytetracycline pills she's taking that are bright yellow. I will post a photo of a poo from her today, has traces of yellow and another suspect piece of matter in it - cecal core? egg las? Unfortunately it seems her droppings have been very liquidy again somehow... gave her coconut oil yesterday and today, have been massaging her crop.

Her crop was stiff again this morning but became soft and squishy after some hours and lots of water and oil.

PS.. the reasons I thought she may be egg bound was the tiredness, weakness, lethargy, non-eating, non-drinking... I looked up those symptoms and that was one possibility that came up. She was never waddling or looking like she was trying to lay.

What value do you see in taking her to the vet? I wonder if they'd be able to test her poo and say if it's cecal or egg mash or whatever else could be tested. I've heard they can surgically empty her crop, I wonder at what point to do that would be (sooner or later?), especially with her being emaciated.. any thoughts? Also curious how much that would cost.

She seems to be doing fairly well considering everything, she's obviously week and resting mostly all day but she's still got her personality and is alert when she's up.

 

[ChickenMama308]

Hi again.

Just to clarify, the term is LASH egg not mash egg which was a typo on Michelle's part, I'm sure. It looks like it could be lash egg material from salpingitis or possibly a cecal core, as a result of coccidiosis. The fullness between her legs suggests it is more likely to be salpingitis.

If her crop is impacted and her whole digestive tract is stopped back then giving her any oral medication is going to have a very limited effect and the long term prognosis for salpingitis is not good. The vet may be able to inject the antibiotics and perhaps show you how you can do that yourself, but considering how much weight she has lost you are going to struggle to find any muscle to put a needle into and bearing in mind that she probably has a terminal reproductive disorder, it might be kinder to end her suffering now. I'm sorry that sounds so negative and I know it will not be what you want to hear but I believe it is important to be realistic in these cases.

I'm still unsure if the way her backside feels is normal or not - it's not huge and very obvious that something is wrong / inflamed, it's just that in comparison to the rest of her emaciated body, this seems to be the place that has the most substance to it.

I would hope it's cecal core if that is a better thing in the long run for her, she has had some yellow in her poo the past handful of days but its hard to say if its coming from her or from the Oxytetracycline pills she's taking that are bright yellow. I will post a photo of a poo from her today, has traces of yellow and another suspect piece of matter in it - cecal core? egg lash? Unfortunately it seems her droppings have been very liquidy again somehow... gave her coconut oil yesterday and today, have been massaging her crop.

Her crop was stiff again this morning but became soft and squishy after some hours and lots of water and oil.

PS.. the reasons I thought she may be egg bound was the tiredness, weakness, lethargy, non-eating, non-drinking... I looked up those symptoms and that was one possibility that came up. She was never waddling or looking like she was trying to lay.

What value do you see in taking her to the vet at this point? Or if I should wait a little longer? I wonder if they'd be able to test her poo and say if it's cecal or egg lash or whatever else could be tested for. I've heard they can surgically empty her crop, I wonder at what point to do that would be (sooner or later?), especially with her being emaciated.. any thoughts? Also curious how much that would cost. She's had a crop that hasn't emptied for at least 3-4 days now, possibly longer but I wasn't checking it first thing in the morning before then.

She seems to be doing fairly well considering everything, she's obviously weak and resting mostly all day but she's still got her personality and is alert when she's up.

 

[ChickenMama308]

Just as an aside, there are concerns about using a whole grain feed like Scratch and Peck and you need to be careful about how you feed it as it can lead to an array of serious health issues if fed incorrectly. This is because some hens will selectively eat their favourite components of the feed if they are able to do so actively billing it out onto the ground so that they can get to the bits that they like. Usually the favourite bits are the high carbohydrate grains, which means that they do not get a balanced diet and are low in protein and calcium and vital vitamins and essential amino acids, the last 3 being mostly in the fine powdery stuff that gets left in the bottom of the feeder. If they have access to this type of feed from a feeder all day long, they will be more likely to be selective about which bits they eat and over time this can lead to reproductive disorders and or Fatty Liver Haemorrhagic Syndrome which can cause birds to die suddenly if their liver ruptures. Fermenting it and just feeding a rationed amount each day I am told helps to ensure that they get all the nutrients they need from it, but if it is just in a hanging feeder to help themselves ad lib, it is potentially risky to their health. If thy bill it out of the feeder, it also encourages rodents to come on a night and clear up the stuff they don't want to eat. I hate waste and I hate rodents, so these are 2 very good reasons not to feed it in that manner without the health risks to the hens. It is also not cheap to buy and most people think they are giving their chickens the best by buying this feed. Also, it would be very wise to provide grit and crushed oyster shell in separate dishes near the feeder if you are using such a whole grain feed.

Wow, I'm surprised I never heard this but it seems to make sense. I know my chickens each prefer different parts of the feed. That's the other thing I forgot to mention to everyone - I've seen baby mice in the feed unfortunately. Trying to suss that out. I've only ever mixed in the oyster shells and grit, I could try keeping them separate as well, thank you!!

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I'm trying to figure out what I can feed her to nourish her that doesn't have vitamin c, dairy etc. while she's taking Oxytetracycline antibiotic.. any thoughts? Trying to keep it a liquid diet for now I guess as she's impacted. We're on day 3 of 5 of this medication. You said, 'If you have care, that would be best.' Was that a typo or what exactly do you mean by that?

I'm sorry I meant if you have Vet Care, that would be best.

Try working on getting the crop to clear before your introduce foods. When you do give her food, you can make a wet mash out of her feed or use wet chick starter. You can also give some mashed up egg.

 

[micstrachan]

Thanks for clarifying my typo! I just read through the thread, saw my typo, saw it carry, went to tell OP I blew it, but then read that @rebrascora corrected. Thank you!

I see more LASH egg material in the last poop pic. Hang in there!

 

[ChickenMama308]

Just an update for everyone... Nani is still hanging tough.. still spending most of her day resting. But still alert and has life in her although she is emaciated. Tomorrow is her last day of her Oxytetracycline antibiotic treatment. I've been trying to keep her on a liquid diet though it was hard to keep it liquid without vitamin c, so I was mainly giving her coconut oil with a bit of vitamin B12. gave her some non-stimulant laxative last night at today. She woke up this morning with more solid feces, but still lots or liquid white and yellow (urate?) Some times some thicker material. She seemed to have a bit more energy today. I felt her crop this morning and it still hadn't emptied, though when I massaged it for a bit after she woke up I swear it went empty! I was excited to see she looked as if she were looking for food, so I got excited and brought her some papaya to eat, which she did! Though that may not have been the smartest thing as Vitamin c neutralizes the antibiotic apparently. She's weighing in at 2.11 pounds which is way too little for her. I'm hopeful to see she has an emptied crop when she wakes up tomorrow.

She has a couple other odd symptoms, it seems she has some sort of a nervous tick when she goes to drink water, she shakes her head in a way that seems somewhat involuntary. She's also scratching at her eyes / head / comb a lot and some times loses balance.

I have an appointment at the vet and I'm trying to figure out what questions / requests to ask to make the most of my visit - any advice anyone?

I was wondering which type of poop test to have done, and if they can test whether something is lash egg material or something else.

Supposedly if you catch Salpingitis in the early stages it can be cured without being fatal, but it's hard to say how far along she is if she has it - though she is pooing out yellow, material that almost looks like egg white, and thicker fleshy material.

I pray that it is not Salpingitis! I love Nani so much. Thank you everyone and take care, will keep you posted <3

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Though that may not have been the smartest thing as Vitamin c neutralizes the antibiotic apparently.

She has a couple other odd symptoms, it seems she has some sort of a nervous tick when she goes to drink water, she shakes her head in a way that seems somewhat involuntary. She's also scratching at her eyes / head / comb a lot and some times loses balance.

Supposedly if you catch Salpingitis in the early stages it can be cured without being fatal, but it's hard to say how far along she is if she has it - though she is pooing out yellow, material that almost looks like egg white, and thicker fleshy material.

Not sure about Vitamin C? I only mentioned not using foods/products that contain calcium when giving the Oxy.
Papaya is an excellent source of vitamin C.

If her crop is not emptying, birds can shake their head/make neck adjustments when they eat/drink. She may be developing a nervous tick since she is unwell. It would be hard to know.

The scratching - have you checked her for lice/mites? Sometimes when a bird is sick and not preening/dust bathing they can get an infestation.

Antibiotics can help with infection from Salpingitis if caught early. This can help heal them, but there is no cure. A lot would depend on the cause. Birds that had IB and MG, even mild strains usually have damage to the reproductive system, so to have problems down the road is likely.

Take several samples with you to the vet, fresh is always good too. Talk to them about what testing they can do for you.