Impacted/Doughy Crop + Stool Question, 5-1/2 mo Silkie hen

[Swbertrand1]

UPDATE on Peanut:

After a week of wrangling with NC State University Veterinary Hospital to find a slot for her in their emergency department, Peanut will make the 100+ mile trip this morning to be seen by their avian specialists in the Health and Wellness unit that deals with "exotics", which includes chickens.

From the outset of this ordeal with this special little girl, she has not skipped a beat and remains the happy, bright-eyed bird she's always been. We're praying that NCSU can get all the metal out of her, treat her for what has been absorbed, and she can go on to lead a normal, happy chicken life!

This is going to break the bank account. They are estimating the removal procedure to be in the $2000-$3000 range with follow-up Chelation Therapy in the $1500-$2000 range.

 

[Swbertrand1]

Peanut UPDATE:

She saw the avian specialists at NC State Tuesday at 1pm, but she deteriorated rapidly once in their care.

I will post an update once I have all of the information to present, but my boyfriend made the decision to have her euthanized about 9:30am yesterday morning after she made no progress overnight Tuesday and into Wednesday morning.

He is completely devastated. Peanut was his baby that he nursed through 2 months of Wry Neck, and now the lead toxicity. He feels like he failed her and wants to share some insights with everyone so they can avoid the critical mistakes made with his little girl, Peanut :-( More to come...

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Peanut UPDATE:

She saw the avian specialists at NC State Tuesday at 1pm, but she deteriorated rapidly once in their care.

I will post an update once I have all of the information to present, but my boyfriend made the decision to have her euthanized about 9:30am yesterday morning after she made no progress overnight Tuesday and into Wednesday morning.

He is completely devastated. Peanut was his baby that he nursed through 2 months of Wry Neck, and now the lead toxicity. He feels like he failed her and wants to share some insights with everyone so they can avoid the critical mistakes made with his little girl, Peanut :-( More to come...

I'm so sorry.

 

[Swbertrand1]

I'm so sorry.

Thank you. I'm sitting here typing with tears streaming down my face... :-(

 

[Swbertrand1]

This will be a part of a larger, comprehensive report probably sometime next week, but here's her toxicology report showing lead levels at 28ppm. NCSU Dr. stated that there is little data on successful cases of birds surviving levels greater than 6ppm. Her levels were 466% higher.

 

[Saaniya]

Peanut UPDATE:

She saw the avian specialists at NC State Tuesday at 1pm, but she deteriorated rapidly once in their care.

I will post an update once I have all of the information to present, but my boyfriend made the decision to have her euthanized about 9:30am yesterday morning after she made no progress overnight Tuesday and into Wednesday morning.

He is completely devastated. Peanut was his baby that he nursed through 2 months of Wry Neck, and now the lead toxicity. He feels like he failed her and wants to share some insights with everyone so they can avoid the critical mistakes made with his little girl, Peanut :-( More to come...

Heartbreaking ..even after the best treatment she still didn't make it same like my teetee he didn't respond towards the treatment and keep getting worse idk what happened to these babies suddenly now I'm.all convience that chickens hide their symptoms so beautifully and we got to know their worsen health at the end ..

I'm so sorry for your loss my heartily prayers peanut must meet teetee above the sky fly high little girl you are so loved

 

[Swbertrand1]

Final FINAL Update, Draft on 10/17/2021

RE: Peanut 04/03/2021 - 10/13/2021 FOREVER IN OUR HEARTS...

I'm posting this final update in hopes that it will help others make better decisions than we did with Peanut, our precious Silkie hen that stole the hearts of EVERYONE who had the pleasure to meet her in her short 6 months of life. This is a bit long, but I think it's worth the read, especially for the importance of timing and the importance of correct diagnosis in a timely manner. Would it have changed Peanut's fate? It's impossible to know, but draw your own conclusions. I'm going to go through a brief timeline of her struggles, identify some mistakes I think we made and why, what we'll do differently moving forward, and offer our personal opinion on relying on different forms of advice. Here's the sad end to her story.

Peanut was hatched April 03, 2021 here at our home, the daughter of our Silkie Roo, Primo, and one of our Silkie hens, Splash, and she was a perfectly normal chick in every way. At about 10-11 weeks of age, Peanut suffered a bout of Wry Neck that took some 8 weeks to correct. This only strengthened her attachment to my boyfriend and his to her; even her sister remained her steadfast buddy throughout her comings and goings for treatment for her condition.

Her Wry Neck treatments ran from about June 23 to August 30. We extended her vitamin therapy a week or so beyond her last symptoms to be sure we were in the clear. By August 30, she had recovered beautifully, but we hadn't considered that her condition could have been exacerbated by ingestion of a foreign substance like Lead (Pb) and still don't know exactly when she picked up the Lead. My boyfriend had set up a little target in the back yard and would shoot Lead pellets at the target from time to time from May/June to as recently as September. Though he would always go pick up the Lead bits, he never got them all, but never considered a bird might eat them. That was MISTAKE #1, and I'm going to post another thread at some point warning of the extreme danger of Lead Toxicity in chickens.

On September 8, Peanut laid her first egg and laid maybe three more in the coming days. On or about September 12, we noticed a Crop problem, and this is where the story takes a turn for the worse. With a Crop problem, we typically don't worry much as we've been down this path before, but she passed an item shaped like a human kidney the next day, September 13th, and never laid another egg in her final month. The kidney-shaped excretion was approximately 1/2" in length and maybe 1/4" thick. Photos were posted on the forum, and we had a number of suggestions regarding what it might be and recommendations for treatment. However, this was MISTAKE #2.

At this point, she should have seen a vet. There was clearly a serious reproductive or intestinal issue at play, likely both, and both well beyond our ability to properly comprehend, diagnose, or treat despite three college degrees between the two of us, two of those degrees being Biology and Chemistry. We tried to treat Peanut and felt like we were gaining ground initially, but we ultimately failed miserably in her diagnosis. Through our own research and consultation with others, we believed we were dealing with either Saplingitis or Egg Yolk Peritonitis (certainly possible and likely) and treated with antibiotics for 10 days. This didn't help her Crop issue, but we were able to keep food in her and moving through her. Once the 10 day antibiotics were up, we treated more aggressively for the crop issue, but after 7 days, my boyfriend said, "that's it, she needs to see a vet". Her stools remained loose, low volume, and with a bright yellow cream covering them throughout this process.

We were able to get her to an avian vet on October 4, 2021. That was roughly three weeks after the "kidney" shaped dropping was discovered (Sept 13 to Oct 4). Her X-rays at the vet showed at least a dozen metallic objects in her Ventriculus (Gizzard). She was immediately referred to NC State University Veterinary Hospital in Raleigh, NC and her full file sent to them. Oddly, through the ALL of her treatments and therapeutics, Peanut remained happy, active, friendly, and normal in every way except for her Crop and Stools - no neurological issues that we could detect. That will make sense toward the end of this update.

We leaned toward NCSU from the outset because of its size, reputation, and because it offered 24/7 care if she needed to stay overnight. It took a week to get her seen due to NCSU not being willing to clarify some initial questions (chelation therapy versus endoscopy) we had with us directly and only being willing to communicate through her first vet. She finally saw the avian vets at NCSU the following Tuesday at 1:00pm; that was Oct 12th, a full 8 days after being referred by her initial vet for a likely lead ingestion emergency. In NCSU's defense, they offered that she could be seen on an "emergency" basis, but never really pushed that even though they had her file, her X-rays, and the suggestion by her first vet that this was likely lead poisoning. We are also 140 miles away from NCSU, thus the reason we asked for a bit of clarification on a possible course of action before setting up either appointment; it's not a short drive across town...

Once with NCSU, she began to decline after just two hours in their care. The timing of her decline is beyond puzzling to us, but perhaps it was the stress of an unfamiliar environment and/or fear. We will never know, but it was heart-breaking to watch her in such distress. She began displaying neurological breaks, not seizures, but moments where she'd lose control of her bowels, start hollering, and spinning in circles and flapping her wings. My boyfriend witnessed this for the first time ever in an exam room at 4pm on Tuesday October 12. She had two more "episodes" in the next 30 minutes. NCSU took blood samples sent them via overnight service to a lab at LSU in Baton Rouge, LA. She stayed with NCSU that Tuesday night because he felt she'd be in better hands should things turn for the worse waiting for morning. A call from NCSU at 7:30am the next morning was the news we didn't want to hear: her "episodes" continued overnight and were dead-on consistent with lead toxicity. So, my boyfriend made the decision to put her out of her misery as her condition was likely not going to improve knowing that the metal in her Gizzard was almost certainly lead, LOTS of it, and it had been there for some time. It devastated him.

She passed via euthanasia at about 10AM Wednesday morning, and the necropsy was performed shortly thereafter. Photos included here show the contents of her Gizzard, and one of the lead pieces can be seen in the photo. The next day, Thursday, we were advised that her blood analysis from LSU showed her blood lead level at 28ppm (parts per million), 466% more than the toxic threshold of 6ppm. She should have been dead long before she ever got to NCSU!

So, this begs the question, what would we have done differently? In short, when confronted with something as bizarre as passing a strange object (kidney-shaped thing) combined with a crop issue, a complete shutdown of laying, and abnormal stools, the help of a medical professional should have been sought at that moment. I love and trust so much of the information on BYC, both of us do, but we lost a lot of time where professional treatment may have been successful rather than having to put this little angel down. We, however, have to live with that, just as my boyfriend has to live with the fact that, in his words, he caused the lead to enter the area that our chickens sometimes occupy, ultimately killing his favorite little bird. Who would have ever put those two things together? He's beyond CRUSHED and so beside himself that he's cried for a week over Peanut. He keeps saying that he failed Peanut; it's heart-breaking.

Moving forward, we'll continue with treatments of minor issues here at the house, but will NEVER again hesitate to get a professional, medical opinion for larger issues. It's just not worth the pain and heartbreak that delaying a proper, qualified diagnosis along with testing can bring. Peanut was super-strong, super-happy, and you'd never have known that she had 12 or more lead pellets in her belly. She had the best personality of any bird we've ever had, much of that likely because she spent so much time with us, and we miss her tremendously. She was just a doll that loved being around us, loved exploring, loved her mealworm treats, loved her sister, and REALLY LOVED HER DADDY! The sadness we're experiencing will take a long time to get over... :-(

EDIT 11/14/2021: It's been a month since this was drafted and just over 3 weeks since we buried Peanut here at home. Looking backward and having received more detailed information on her necropsy, we now wonder if Peanut's Wry Neck issues might have been caused by the Lead she'd ingested, or possibly made worse by the Lead ingestion (i.e. harder to treat). It's an interesting thing to ponder since Lead, once ingested and absorbed into the body, is a debilitating neurotoxin. It affects the Brain's development and function, causes disruption in Liver and Reproductive functions, and finds its way into soft tissue and bone in the body. It's a HORRIBLE substance when ingested, and she had over twenty (20) pieces of Lead removed from her Gizzard at necropsy.

In Peanut's case, if she had begun consuming Lead back in May and June, Lead could have been the root cause of her Wry Neck (neurological condition). It might also be why she was such a tough case to treat too; we might have been trying to combat a condition that was brought on by Lead, while we subdued the effects of Lead with Vitamin-E but only prolonged the inevitable. In other words, we might have just managed to keep her alive and acting normally through 8 weeks of Wry Neck Treatment and beyond, but then when it was time to lay, the Lead took over again because it was still being deposited into her body from her Gizzard. Sadly, we'll never know for sure. The upside is that she remained happy and active all her days, never once acting like she was in distress, pain, or even concerned about anything. She was just a precious, sweet little creature, and that is the one thing we hold onto... S&S

 

[humblehillsfarm]

Final FINAL Update, Draft on 10/17/2021

RE: Peanut 04/03/2021 - 10/13/2021 FOREVER IN OUR HEARTS...

I'm posting this final update in hopes that it will help others make better decisions than we did with Peanut, our precious Silkie hen that stole the hearts of EVERYONE who had the pleasure to meet her in her short 6 months of life. This is a bit long, but I think it's worth the read, especially for the importance of timing and the importance of correct diagnosis in a timely manner. Would it have changed Peanut's fate? It's impossible to know, but draw your own conclusions. I'm going to go through a brief timeline of her struggles, identify some mistakes I think we made and why, what we'll do differently moving forward, and offer our personal opinion on relying on different forms of advice. Here's the sad end to her story.

Peanut was hatched April 03, 2021 here at our home, the daughter of our Silkie Roo, Primo, and one of our Silkie hens, Splash, and she was a perfectly normal chick in every way. At about 10-11 weeks of age, Peanut suffered a bout of Wry Neck that took some 8 weeks to correct. This only strengthened her attachment to my boyfriend and his to her; even her sister remained her steadfast buddy throughout her comings and goings for treatment for her condition.

Her Wry Neck treatments ran from about June 23 to August 30. We extended her vitamin therapy a week or so beyond her last symptoms to be sure we were in the clear. By August 30, she had recovered beautifully, but we hadn't considered that her condition could have been exacerbated by ingestion of a foreign substance like Lead (Pb) and still don't know exactly when she picked up the Lead. My boyfriend had set up a little target in the back yard and would shoot Lead pellets at the target from time to time from May/June to as recently as September. Though he would always go pick up the Lead bits, he never got them all, but never considered a bird might eat them. That was MISTAKE #1, and I'm going to post another thread at some point warning of the extreme danger of Lead Toxicity in chickens.

On September 8, Peanut laid her first egg and laid maybe three more in the coming days. On or about September 12, we noticed a Crop problem, and this is where the story takes a turn for the worse. With a Crop problem, we typically don't worry much as we've been down this path before, but she passed an item shaped like a human kidney the next day, September 13th, and never laid another egg in her final month. The kidney-shaped excretion was approximately 1/2" in length and maybe 1/4" thick. Photos were posted on the forum, and we had a number of suggestions regarding what it might be and recommendations for treatment. However, this was MISTAKE #2.

At this point, she should have seen a vet. There was clearly a serious reproductive or intestinal issue at play, likely both, and both well beyond our ability to properly comprehend, diagnose, or treat despite three college degrees between the two of us, two of those degrees being Biology and Chemistry. We tried to treat Peanut and felt like we were gaining ground initially, but we ultimately failed miserably in her diagnosis. Through our own research and consultation with others, we believed we were dealing with either Saplingitis or Egg Yolk Peritonitis (certainly possible and likely) and treated with antibiotics for 10 days. This didn't help her Crop issue, but we were able to keep food in her and moving through her. Once the 10 day antibiotics were up, we treated more aggressively for the crop issue, but after 7 days, my boyfriend said, "that's it, she needs to see a vet". Her stools remained loose, low volume, and with a bright yellow cream covering them throughout this process.

We were able to get her to an avian vet on October 4, 2021. That was roughly three weeks after the "kidney" shaped dropping was discovered (Sept 13 to Oct 4). Her X-rays at the vet showed at least a dozen metallic objects in her Ventriculus (Gizzard). She was immediately referred to NC State University Veterinary Hospital in Raleigh, NC and her full file sent to them. Oddly, through the ALL of her treatments and therapeutics, Peanut remained happy, active, friendly, and normal in every way except for her Crop and Stools - no neurological issues that we could detect. That will make sense toward the end of this update.

We leaned toward NCSU from the outset because of its size, reputation, and because it offered 24/7 care if she needed to stay overnight. It took a week to get her seen due to NCSU not being willing to clarify some initial questions (chelation therapy versus endoscopy) we had with us directly and only being willing to communicate through her first vet. She finally saw the avian vets at NCSU the following Tuesday at 1:00pm; that was Oct 12th, a full 8 days after being referred by her initial vet for a likely lead ingestion emergency. In NCSU's defense, they offered that she could be seen on an "emergency" basis, but never really pushed that even though they had her file, her X-rays, and the suggestion by her first vet that this was likely lead poisoning. We are also 140 miles away from NCSU, thus the reason we asked for a bit of clarification on a possible course of action before setting up either appointment; it's not a short drive across town...

Once with NCSU, she began to decline after just two hours in their care. The timing of her decline is beyond puzzling to us, but perhaps it was the stress of an unfamiliar environment and/or fear. We will never know, but it was heart-breaking to watch her in such distress. She began displaying neurological breaks, not seizures, but moments where she'd lose control of her bowels, start hollering, and spinning in circles and flapping her wings. My boyfriend witnessed this for the first time ever in an exam room at 4pm on Tuesday October 12. She had two more "episodes" in the next 30 minutes. NCSU took blood samples sent them via overnight service to a lab at LSU in Baton Rouge, LA. She stayed with NCSU that Tuesday night because he felt she'd be in better hands should things turn for the worse waiting for morning. A call from NCSU at 7:30am the next morning was the news we didn't want to hear: her "episodes" continued overnight and were dead-on consistent with lead toxicity. So, my boyfriend made the decision to put her out of her misery as her condition was likely not going to improve knowing that the metal in her Gizzard was almost certainly lead, LOTS of it, and it had been there for some time. It devastated him.

She passed via euthanasia at about 10AM Wednesday morning, and the necropsy was performed shortly thereafter. Photos included here show the contents of her Gizzard, and one of the lead pieces can be seen in the photo. The next day, Thursday, we were advised that her blood analysis from LSU showed her blood lead level at 28ppm (parts per million), 466% more than the toxic threshold of 6ppm. She should have been dead long before she ever got to NCSU!

So, this begs the question, what would we have done differently? In short, when confronted with something as bizarre as passing a strange object (kidney-shaped thing) combined with a crop issue, a complete shutdown of laying, and abnormal stools, the help of a medical professional should have been sought at that moment. I love and trust so much of the information on BYC, both of us do, but we lost a lot of time where professional treatment may have been successful rather than having to put this little angel down. We, however, have to live with that, just as my boyfriend has to live with the fact that, in his words, he caused the lead to enter the area that our chickens sometimes occupy, ultimately killing his favorite little bird. Who would have ever put those two things together? He's beyond CRUSHED and so beside himself that he's cried for a week over Peanut. He keeps saying that he failed Peanut; it's heart-breaking.

Moving forward, we'll continue with treatments of minor issues here at the house, but will NEVER again hesitate to get a professional, medical opinion for larger issues. It's just not worth the pain and heartbreak that delaying a proper, qualified diagnosis along with testing can bring. Peanut was super-strong, super-happy, and you'd never have known that she had 12 or more lead pellets in her belly. She had the best personality of any bird we've ever had, much of that likely because she spent so much time with us, and we miss her tremendously. She was just a doll that loved being around us, loved exploring, loved her mealworm treats, loved her sister, and REALLY LOVED HER DADDY! The sadness we're experiencing will take a long time to get over... :-(

EDIT 11/14/2021: It's been a month since this was drafted and just over 3 weeks since we buried Peanut here at home. Looking backward and having received more detailed information on her necropsy, we now wonder if Peanut's Wry Neck issues might have been caused by the Lead she'd ingested, or possibly made worse by the Lead ingestion (i.e. harder to treat). It's an interesting thing to ponder since Lead, once ingested and absorbed into the body, is a debilitating neurotoxin. It affects the Brain's development and function, causes disruption in Liver and Reproductive functions, and finds its way into soft tissue and bone in the body. It's a HORRIBLE substance when ingested, and she had over twenty (20) pieces of Lead removed from her Gizzard at necropsy.

In Peanut's case, if she had begun consuming Lead back in May and June, Lead could have been the root cause of her Wry Neck (neurological condition). It might also be why she was such a tough case to treat too; we might have been trying to combat a condition that was brought on by Lead, while we subdued the effects of Lead with Vitamin-E but only prolonged the inevitable. In other words, we might have just managed to keep her alive and acting normally through 8 weeks of Wry Neck Treatment and beyond, but then when it was time to lay, the Lead took over again because it was still being deposited into her body from her Gizzard. Sadly, we'll never know for sure. The upside is that she remained happy and active all her days, never once acting like she was in distress, pain, or even concerned about anything. She was just a precious, sweet little creature, and that is the one thing we hold onto... S&S

Peanut’s story was beautifully well written. I am so heartbroken to hear her outcome.

I’ve found horrible things in my Cornish cross’s gizzards after processing. We try so hard to keep our yard clean, but this house has been here for longer than I’ve been alive, and it was a coal company’s property before that. It’s an impossible task. I have heard of other chickens struggling with metal toxicity, and I recently also had to make the choice to put down a sick hen without ever knowing the cause or diagnosis. It’s always been in the back of my mind my hen could have died because of something she ingested, and worse still, could it happen to more of my flock? I don’t have access to a vet though so I’ll always be left wondering. It is no consolation, but at least a diagnosis leaves no unanswered questions.

Have you found away to pick up more of the lead to protect your other chickens?

I’m so sorry for your loss. Peanut was such a beautiful chicken. I hope others can read and learn from her story.

 

[Swbertrand1]

Peanut’s story was beautifully well written. I am so heartbroken to hear her outcome.

I’ve found horrible things in my Cornish cross’s gizzards after processing. We try so hard to keep our yard clean, but this house has been here for longer than I’ve been alive, and it was a coal company’s property before that. It’s an impossible task. I have heard of other chickens struggling with metal toxicity, and I recently also had to make the choice to put down a sick hen without ever knowing the cause or diagnosis. It’s always been in the back of my mind my hen could have died because of something she ingested, and worse still, could it happen to more of my flock? I don’t have access to a vet though so I’ll always be left wondering. It is no consolation, but at least a diagnosis leaves no unanswered questions.

Have you found away to pick up more of the lead to protect your other chickens?

I’m so sorry for your loss. Peanut was such a beautiful chicken. I hope others can read and learn from her story.

Thank you; my bf wrote that up and edited it over and over, then came back to it for the final edit before posting a few days ago. I did her heart shaped headstone for her grave marker. He did everything else related to this chicken, and as I've said, he's devastated. He loved that little bird more than me I think :-\

Lead is a serious issue in many parts of the country, more so in the northeast as I understand it from our research. Lead from car parts, motor fuel, paint, industrial activities, and so much more has made it a source of problems for all living creatures, and it can be found in toxic levels in residential neighborhoods long after the source of the Lead has been removed. It's really a HUGE problem in those locations, one that I'm not sure we'll ever overcome without extensive (and expensive) site remediation. The problem is that most people don't even know it's a problem on their property if it's there...

Like you, we try very hard to keep our yard clear of things our birds might pick up, but we can't find it all, something you mention above. Could it happen to the rest of the flock? Sure, but we can only do what we can do. In our case, we've restricted the small area where the remaining Lead pellets might be until we can buy a good metal detector to sweep the area fully.

In the coming days, we're going to post a Lead warning here on BYC; Sam is drafting that now. I don't think it's a huge issue for most, but he's going to include some reference material about the hazards of all sorts of "bits" that chickens can/will consume to hopefully raise awareness for backyard flock owners.

Thank you for the kind words; she was beyond precious: gentle, sweet, kind, just a love to be around and SO talkative! He was willing to spend $ thousands on her treatment; that's how special she was. Almost every night, Sam says he misses Peanut being up at the garage with us as we work on the mealworm farm (a whole other endeavor that we do just for our birds), feed the cat, catch the news of the day on TV, have a cocktail, etc. It makes me cry. Hopefully we'll hatch another "Peanut" in coming years, but the bar was set pretty high with this little girl.