In-breeding or not?

LovinMyPeeps

Sees Wine Dots
10 Years
Mar 22, 2009
3,441
13
201
Heuvelton, NY
So I went to TSC a while ago and bought some banty chicks. It now seems I have 1 millie fleur roo and 2 hens and 1 porcelain d'uccle roo and a porcelain d'uccle hen. So, I know they came from Mt. Healthy Hatchery which I'm sure processes thousands of chicks. Is it safe to breed these pairs or not? They are for pets, I'm not planning to show just raise my own flock. Any thoughts? Two of the mille fleurs are stunning I'm sure they'd have beautiful babies if it's safe to breed them.
 

emvickrey

ChowDown Silkie Farm
10 Years
Mar 5, 2009
6,069
234
306
Hornbeak, Tennessee
I have a similar question. I have some mutts from my flock. I wanted to know if it is safe to let father-daughter breed for hatching? I know which roo did the deed to each chick. It is very obvious. I may split them up if we build another coop.
 

Glenda L Heywood

Songster
10 Years
Apr 11, 2009
1,436
47
171
well I guess you could but line breeding is as follows

yours will be brother to sister
and not what I would do as it closes the gap and will produce the faults too much

the ideal thought here is to use the
rooster on the females of another color

so that would make the lines of the chicks come from the female
1 millie fleur roo 1 porcelan hen
this will have just one line of chicks
say you color the leg band red


and 2 millie fluer hens and 1 porcelan d'uccle roo
this mating will have two lines as it has two females
say you color the leg bands blue and yellow


then in F-1 you will do this
put the millie fluer adult roo back on the young millie fluer hens
that of the yellow and blue bands

F-1 mating you will do this

the porcelan roo on the young females from the red band mating

also I would go by toe puching number in my breed book as to the lines
and keep direct notations of what toe punches you mat what males to

it will give you several ways to mate them and redo the colors to original noted color pattern

Toe punch article for chicks
TOE PUNCHING CHICKS FOR IDENTIFICATION

When one makes up mating pens one must also assign
each pen a certain toe punch. Enter into a record book
this method
(1) the Pen Number
(2) the male birds band color and toe punch
(3) the females band color and toe punch
(4) now asign a different toe punch for the chicks and
record this.

When the breeders are mated and eggs laid one must
then gather the fresh eggs daily and with a #2 pencil
mark the number of the pen on the egg.

Now when the incubator is set take and put all the
same numbers on eggs in one of the many compartments,
you have made by putting across the hatching tray a
piece of hail screen cut to size the width of the
tray and in this width make two pens using hail screen
cut to fit.

Now take and make that tight enough to hold the
movement of the tray. or take some electrical ties and
tie the hail screen in several places

Each hatching tray can hold about 6 to eight
individual pens for eggs.

Now have a piece of the hail screen made to fit the
top of the tray so the hatched chicks can't get out
after hatching and mix with the other chicks.

Now on the hatching day you will see all these
biddies each in individual pens to mark, and on the
day you decide to take each setting tray and empty of
live chicks do this.

Take the hatching tray and lid on it to a table and
set it comfortabley down on the table and one pen by
one pen open each hatching pen. And mark each chick
before going to the next pen of chicks with the
assigned toe punch, that you hae written in a code
book.

Okay we will start
(1) pen #1 = toe punch with assigned code.
then take all chicks out one at a time from this
individual hatching pen.Put them in a nice basket with
handle and work just on these toe punching them one at
a time. Cover the other pens back with hail screen
lid, so they can't get out.

Now take one chick and with a toe punch tool which you
have to really bear down on so it cuts the hole big
enough to not heal over.

I prefer a cuticle sciscors and do this
holding chick in hand put finger under webs and with
other hand cut each toe web for the toe punch.

If using more than one punch in each web then need toe
punch tool. such as toe punching ducks webs

Say you are using the right inside web and left in
side web for pen #1
now cut the left inside web to end of its length and
then cut the right left inside web to end of its
length and it will not bleed if any.

Put the chick in a box you have for taking to brooder
or another basket with handle.

go thru and mark with cuticle sciscors all these
chicks
this toe punch from pen #1 and so on thru pen numbers
one pen at a time.

Now continue thru the rest of the pens doing each pen
one chick at a time and covering the tray of hatched
chicks so they can't mix up.

Now here is the whole set up of 16 punches for
marking

TOE PUNCHING INFORMATION
when the chick is hatched you cut the web
of the toe for the toe punch marks.the toe punch
clicker is just a punch and hole for the punch to
go thru taking the web with it. Make sure that you
punch hard and really get the web as it will grow shut
if not. That is why I like to cut with a cuticle
sciscors. It is more permanent.

Fred Jeffrey in his book bantam chickens gives the 16
possible toe punch combinations.
to start with
(1) no punch in any toe web

(2) punch left out side web
(3) punch right out side web

(4) punch left inside web
(5) Punch right inside web

(6) punch both left webs
(7 punch both right webs

(8)punch left outside and right outside webs
(9) punch left inside and right inside webs

(10) punch outside left web and right inside web
(11) punch inside left web and right outside web

(12) punch two left webs and outside right web
(13) punch two left webs and inside right web

(14) punch outside left web and two right webs
(15) punch inside left web and two right webs

(16) punch all four webs left and right

hope this helps.
 

Krys109uk

Songster
11 Years
Aug 6, 2008
2,389
25
181
a valley; by a brook.
Mating brother to sister can be okay....as the others have said......they are unlikely to have any real issues from one brother sister mating. But if you want to maximise the gene pool what Glenda says would be a good option but remembering the the offspring from the first mating would not produce any porcelain offspring because lavender is recessive.
 

emvickrey

ChowDown Silkie Farm
10 Years
Mar 5, 2009
6,069
234
306
Hornbeak, Tennessee
I will keep in mind of what she said but right now I just want to know that if I put the hens I got out of my own flock breeding in to breed with the roo that produced them. For hatching. I'm not trying to get a certain color or trait, just eggs. I do want to get more of the Giant Jersey I have in there that are mixed with the Domonique. They make beautiful birds and they are huge. They lay huge eggs also. That is what i'm looking for mainly. The jumbo eggs.

You see, I am planning my flock to sell the eggs for eating. The larger the egg, the more I can charge and people like big eggs. Having beautiful birds for my customers to look at is a plus. I haven't a recent pic but this is what I get.

Mymixes.jpg


The white spotted one that I think is so pretty. The red one dsint' unusual at all. The whiet one is a mix of Wydonette hen and Domonique roo. It makes a large white spotted one. I also got one that is just about a week old that is from the Jersey Giant hen and Domonique roo and it looks very similar so far. Below is the hen from the white one
yellowneckgreybutt.jpg


The little red one is from a RIR roo and a red sex-link hen. I have lots of RIR hens and just want to bring color to my flock mostly just for looks.

So my original question was can I breed this white spotted hen with her father the Domonique? And it not produce any malformations or sick chicksens. Will they be good? Or what is the chances of problems with the chicks?
 

emvickrey

ChowDown Silkie Farm
10 Years
Mar 5, 2009
6,069
234
306
Hornbeak, Tennessee
The roo has a silgle comb and the hen has a rose comb. The chick has a rose comb. I still don't really know if it is a roo or a hen. The hen is a silver laced Wydonette. I need to get a more recent pic. It is a very pretty bird

I keep trying to introduce the two to the flock but they attack everytime. They have been in a pen inside the coop for over a week now. Even the 3 month olds attatck. I don't understand why. They all see them all the time everyday. The chicks just go aobut their business while they dodge the other chickens and I have to stand in there and guard them. They will surround them and attatck I turn my head. I'm thinking I will have to build another coop for the new ones. An expense I just can't afford right now. I have 3 more that really should go in there to. And I have some that just hatched. I was planning to put them all in one coop.
 

Judy

Crowing
Premium Feather Member
10 Years
Feb 5, 2009
34,024
600
448
South Georgia
You should be able to get them mixed, eventually, with a little strategy. One way is to sneak the new ones onto the roost at night while all are asleep. Then get there early in the morning with treats and distract them. Another is to do it while they are free ranging and have places to escape to. It really works best if they are all more or less the same size. There will be some pecking and jostling as they rearrange the pecking order. You don't need to intervene unless someone draws blood.

Here is a good article to read about mixing flocks:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/web/viewblog.php?id=2593-adding-to-your-flock
 

NYREDS

Crowing
12 Years
Jan 14, 2008
5,644
446
303
You're right in your assumption. Having come from a hatchery there's almost no chance that these birds are related. Breeding them should not be a problem. After that follow a standard line-breeding pattern [father/daughter, mother/son] & you can continue for generations.
 

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