Inbreeding and Line-Breeding Poultry

[Chloe77]

I bought two Sumatra Bantams, Gunther and Inga, from a great breeder, Doug Akers. They were expensive, and I could only afford the pair.

But I want to breed them, and I'm a bit at a loss as how to do it. I'm pretty sure that the pair are somehow related. Cousins or nephew and aunt. I don't think they're bro and sis.

I can breed them now, but what about the future generations? If I get three chicks from them, say two males and a female, how do I breed them?

The sons to mother, daughter to father, or just another bro-sis combination?

I need some breeding advice.

(Btw, both birds are healthy.)

 

[Mac14]

I've never bred chickens, but maybe just breed these 2 together and have a very small batch and inspect each chick very carefully to see if there are and defects. But DO NOT breed son and mother vice versa. Maybe someone will say something else, and are hopefully right because I have not first hand experience. Hope it goes well.

 

[Chloe77]

I've never bred chickens, but maybe just breed these 2 together and have a very small batch and inspect each chick very carefully to see if there are and defects. But DO NOT breed son and mother vice versa. Maybe someone will say something else, and are hopefully right because I have not first hand experience. Hope it goes well.

Thanks for your advice!

I'll def breed my pair, and have some chicks, cull a few, and um... Carry on.

Wahey, I researched a little, and if I'm careful, it's probably ok to breed within the pair again...

 

[cubakid]

You should be fine. I don't know as to the generations but I'd assume cousins or half siblings if they are similar ages. You shouldn't have to many problems. My experience is that overly inbred( over several generations) birds just will not hatch period or you will have low fertility. I don't think there will be any issues with your birds.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

It would take many generations of unchecked inbreeding to ruin a flock. Line breeding is done all the time. There are flocks out there with no new source of blood for over 50 years. The reason it works is culling any and all defects. Keeping only best birds for breeding.

 

[BRITROCK]

Hi
The chances are they will and should be related.
Breed them together but hatch more than 3 chicks, 40 would be better. Choose the best cockerel and a couple of pullets and breed son to mother and father to daughter, the rest sell so you will not be tempted to breed from them or give a good trio to a local breeder for future sharing of stock. Choose the youngsters on SOP and vigour (early crower etc.) If you have space keep the two lines separate, change the cockerels ever year, once you are up and running you can mix your lines or borrow a male from the original breeder.
Providing you select only the best with the greatest vigour you will see improvement and actually benefit from inbreeding making your strain purer.
20 from each trio should be enough to select from each year. Hope this helps BRITROCK

 

[3riverschick]

Hi
The chances are they will and should be related.
Breed them together but hatch more than 3 chicks, 40 would be better. Choose the best cockerel and a couple of pullets and breed son to mother and father to daughter, the rest sell so you will not be tempted to breed from them or give a good trio to a local breeder for future sharing of stock. Choose the youngsters on SOP and vigour (early crower etc.) If you have space keep the two lines separate, change the cockerels ever year, once you are up and running you can mix your lines or borrow a male from the original breeder.
Providing you select only the best with the greatest vigour you will see improvement and actually benefit from inbreeding making your strain purer.
20 from each trio should be enough to select from each year. Hope this helps BRITROCK

This is excellent advice. Not just advice but the "How-To". also. Supported by classic poultry texts and animal breeding theory.
Great post BritRock, getting a great Ovation on this!
Karen

 

[SumatraBantam]

Hi
The chances are they will and should be related.
Breed them together but hatch more than 3 chicks, 40 would be better. Choose the best cockerel and a couple of pullets and breed son to mother and father to daughter, the rest sell so you will not be tempted to breed from them or give a good trio to a local breeder for future sharing of stock. Choose the youngsters on SOP and vigour (early crower etc.) If you have space keep the two lines separate, change the cockerels ever year, once you are up and running you can mix your lines or borrow a male from the original breeder.
Providing you select only the best with the greatest vigour you will see improvement and actually benefit from inbreeding making your strain purer.
20 from each trio should be enough to select from each year. Hope this helps BRITROCK

Fabulous answer, Britrock. It really helped me out!

I'm so relieved at the answers I'm getting. I was under the impression that I would have to have a diverse breeding pool, which would mean a lot of different birds.

WHEW!

 

[3riverschick]

Fabulous answer, Britrock. It really helped me out!

I'm so relieved at the answers I'm getting. I was under the impression that I would have to have a diverse breeding pool, which would mean a lot of different birds.

WHEW!

Hi,
A lot of new breeders make the mistake of thinking they need a diverse gene pool for biodiversity. Not so in poultry because of the wide genetic base of the species and the huge amount of sex-linked genes. Plus the wise selection for positive traits by the breeder within the gene pool they are using. This maintains breed diversity. Many beginners cross strains to found their flock and then get frustrated by the genetic variation which harasses them for years as they try to set type in their newly founded strain.
Pick a breed.
Obtain top quality birds. A trio or quad of started birds is proper and right. yes, they cost more and you may have to wait while the breeder raises them...however, he will do a much better job than you because he knows his strain...plus he will cull the biirds 1 or 2 times for quality so the birds you get to found your flock will be representative of the quality of his strain. You can raise chicks the next year, smile. And you will redeem both time and money by not having to spend 2-4 years breeding your stock up to show quality level!
Then inbreed and/or linebreed. If you ever need to outcross, go to a related bloodline and do not bring in more than 1/4 foreign blood at a time. Bring the blood in thru the dam's side. That way if it doesn't nick, you don't have a rooster spreading seed throughout the flock. Just the get of one hen, instead, easily culled.
I have a trio of Sussex which I am starting out with. They are show quality and 1/2 bro and 1/2 sis thru their shared mother.
Here is my 5 year plan:
1. Breed the girls to my boy. Hold back the best son.
2.Breed the best daughters to their father.
3.Then take the daughters from that breeding back to their grandsire.
4.Then take the daughters from that breeding back the original sire who is now their great grandsire.
5. Then, depending on the flocks needs, I will either breed the brothers and sisters from this latest generation together.
Or breed the girls from this latest generation back to the son of the original rooster whom I held back in the first generation.

By this time, I will know the strain well and it will be obvious which breeding system I should choose to proceed from here.
Best,
Karen

 

[gallorojo]

Just a fair warning- all if these " la la la inbreeding is swell" folks seem to be forgetting to mention a few things. If you are going to operate as advised, you need to understand that-
- you must hatch large numbers each year.
- you must cull incredibly ruthlessly.
- you must start with the genes, traits, diversity , etc that you want or need
- you must start with a breed already bred to a very high degree of perfection, not a breed that needs major work.
- you must start with the very very best stock from the very very best breeder around.
- all the advice you have been given so far assumes your goal is to breed top show birds, and that you start with top show birds from the best line.
- this is a system designed to maintain perfection, not fix something broken or create something new.

If your goal is winning shows with a breed that's where it needs to be, then the advice you have been given is standard practice.