Infected/prolapsed vent issues

[Ascentia]

Hi chicken community!

This is my first post here and I am hoping for some guidance.

We purchased our egg layers (Leghorn crossed X Rhode Island Red) about a year ago from a family friend who has a large egg producing farm. When we got them they were approximately 18 months old, healthy and laying well. They are now 2.5 years old which I am told is old for a laying hen of this type?
The first vent issue started for us early this summer. We ended up with 2 sick chickens - it looked like the vent was infected to me. I sent a video of the hen to the farmer we purchased them from and I was told it looked like a prolapsed vent. With both chickens I tried to give them a warm bath to clean their vents and syringe feed them water etc. but both did not make it. One of them we made the call to euthanize as she was clearly suffering.
Now we have 2 more chickens with what appears to be the same issue

My question is: Am I doing something to cause this? They have been on the same feed (Non-gmo layer pellets) and receive good quality kitchen scraps from time to time and grass trimmings. I am too worried to let them free range as we lost 2 to a turkey vulture while in their run.
Is this a common issue with this breed as they are intended to lay a lot of eggs and that causes vent problems?

Any advice or information would be so appreciated.

Thank you!
Ashley

 

[Hen Pen Jem]

Greetings Ascentia,

There are several things that can cause a hen's vent to prolapse.

• Being over weight
• Laying soft shelled eggs
• Laying at too young an age
• Laying unusually large eggs

Caring for the hen's prolapsed vent, must be done immediately.

1. Isolate the hen in a hospital crate, tub or other fenced safe area. Otherwise, the other hens will peck at the exposed tissue, killing the hen.
2. Flush the vent with sterile saline solution, to clean any debris.
3. Put on some latex gloves.
4. Apply some: Preparation H ointment, or Manuka honey medical grade (both will help reduce the swollen tissue.)
5. Gently and carefully, push the prolapsed vent back into the hen. If it falls out again, reapply the ointment, or honey and repeat until it stays.
6. Treat with antibiotics for 10-14 days, until danger of infection has passed.

You may need to fish out her eggs until she can pass them herself. A hen that has prolapsed is always in danger of prolapsing again. Keep the hen isolated till she is healed.

I would also give her some electrolytes in her water, to help with shock. And hopefully, the hen will stop laying for a few days or more. Then, the prolapse will have a chance to heal. I will give my hens, half of a Tums tablet for a quick calcium boost, when they are laying soft or brittle eggs.

It's unclear if there is anything you are doing to cause this. It could be an issue of genetics and breeding stock.

These are my thoughts on your hens issues. I hope I have been helpful.

God Bless

 

[Hen Pen Jem]

P.S.

Also, at 2.5 years of age, your hens are gearing down in their egg laying. So hopefully the prolapsed hen won't lay too many eggs within the next couple weeks. Some keepers will keep the hen in a darkened area, so as not to stimulate egg laying during healing.

God Bless

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Hi, welcome to BYC!

Sorry you are having issues.

Are you able to post a pic?

With prolapse as far as I know... it is caused by eggs being too large to pass (possible double or more yolker that prolapsed instead of binding) or maybe weak genetics. I don't consider it to be a common problem... however if it's genetic and all your birds are coming from the same place... then it may be common for you. O personally would not get those birds again.

If it is a prolapse... it can be pushed back inside and supported to try and recover. But I consider it likely to happen again and cull for it. Some MAY pull back in on their own.

Whether 2.5 is old or not kinda depends on the line... even in more prolific layers IMO.

What are "good quality" kitchen scraps?

I'm afraid you may be mistaken about your predator... as turkey vultures are carrion eaters and not birds of prey as far as I know. Meaning they are scavengers... and if that is what you saw on your birds they were likely already dead. Sorry for your loss.

I prefer a feed with a little more protein than layer offers... especially for older birds who will be going through molt... as feathers are made from 90% protein and it AMINO acids from animal derived sources, they are usually added into our "vegetarian" feeds. In addition, molters will not be producing all the eggs and have a lower need for calcium... which fed long term to birds not in lay *could* (doesn't mean will) cause gout and even kidney failure (usually in birds genetically predisposed or also fed excess low nutrient snacks). Since I often have molters, broody's, and such... I like to offer my oyster shell free choice on the side... so that way those who need it can take some but those who don't are able to avoid it while still meeting their energy needs. Feeding higher protein DOES help my birds get through molt faster and easier. You might benefit from using a "grower" with 18% protein and OS on the side for layers. I always use 20% "protein flock" raiser with OS on the side. I put quotes because every company makes up their own names... the major difference usually boils down to protein and calcium levels regardless of what they call it.

I can't help but wonder... what kind of family "friend" let's their birds go to a new home at 18 months as they approach their first molt instead of suggesting some younger birds so you can enjoy eggs a bit longer before their production fades? To me the second year of laying may be the best... as they are no longer pullet sized eggs. So I don't mean they are completely spent birds, but I am curious to how much you paid? I do try to let some of my older birds got to new homes early in that laying season for their new owners, and I know things aren't always predictable... no judgement, just... always trying to look out for people.

Only thing, I know of that humans do which might directly impact vent prolapse... would be excess treats that cause obesity or nutrient deficit. And if you use artificial lighting to keep production up. Beyond that I really don't think it is about our management.

I personally will not treat with anti biotics... as the body makes it's own... and there is too much resistance these days from over use. I have been advised against using prep H, though I have suggested it in the past and read it might help. I also won't use electrolytes unless a bird is not drinking or has had diarrhea, as I know they can be overdosed. I do like to offer vitamin or probiotic support to start off with though!

And note that giving tums is about supporting the muscles more than building egg shells... the hen will sacrifice her own calcium before laying softees... they are *usually* a hiccup of the reproductive system starting up or shutting down more than an actual lack of calcium in the diet.

Hang in there! Hope your hens recover.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

When using a warm bath... I believe Epsom salt is a good additive... it should help reduce the swelling and help to relax the muscles and the magnesium absorbs through skin.

Hen Pen gave a nice description... much better than just push that nasty thing back in.

 

[Ascentia]

Hi, welcome to BYC!

Sorry you are having issues.

Are you able to post a pic?

With prolapse as far as I know... it is caused by eggs being too large to pass (possible double or more yolker that prolapsed instead of binding) or maybe weak genetics. I don't consider it to be a common problem... however if it's genetic and all your birds are coming from the same place... then it may be common for you. O personally would not get those birds again.

If it is a prolapse... it can be pushed back inside and supported to try and recover. But I consider it likely to happen again and cull for it. Some MAY pull back in on their own.

Whether 2.5 is old or not kinda depends on the line... even in more prolific layers IMO.

What are "good quality" kitchen scraps?

I'm afraid you may be mistaken about your predator... as turkey vultures are carrion eaters and not birds of prey as far as I know. Meaning they are scavengers... and if that is what you saw on your birds they were likely already dead. Sorry for your loss.

I prefer a feed with a little more protein than layer offers... especially for older birds who will be going through molt... as feathers are made from 90% protein and it AMINO acids from animal derived sources, they are usually added into our "vegetarian" feeds. In addition, molters will not be producing all the eggs and have a lower need for calcium... which fed long term to birds not in lay *could* (doesn't mean will) cause gout and even kidney failure (usually in birds genetically predisposed or also fed excess low nutrient snacks). Since I often have molters, broody's, and such... I like to offer my oyster shell free choice on the side... so that way those who need it can take some but those who don't are able to avoid it while still meeting their energy needs. Feeding higher protein DOES help my birds get through molt faster and easier. You might benefit from using a "grower" with 18% protein and OS on the side for layers. I always use 20% "protein flock" raiser with OS on the side. I put quotes because every company makes up their own names... the major difference usually boils down to protein and calcium levels regardless of what they call it.

I can't help but wonder... what kind of family "friend" let's their birds go to a new home at 18 months as they approach their first molt instead of suggesting some younger birds so you can enjoy eggs a bit longer before their production fades? To me the second year of laying may be the best... as they are no longer pullet sized eggs. So I don't mean they are completely spent birds, but I am curious to how much you paid? I do try to let some of my older birds got to new homes early in that laying season for their new owners, and I know things aren't always predictable... no judgement, just... always trying to look out for people.

Only thing, I know of that humans do which might directly impact vent prolapse... would be excess treats that cause obesity or nutrient deficit. And if you use artificial lighting to keep production up. Beyond that I really don't think it is about our management.

I personally will not treat with anti biotics... as the body makes it's own... and there is too much resistance these days from over use. I have been advised against using prep H, though I have suggested it in the past and read it might help. I also won't use electrolytes unless a bird is not drinking or has had diarrhea, as I know they can be overdosed. I do like to offer vitamin or probiotic support to start off with though!

And note that giving tums is about supporting the muscles more than building egg shells... the hen will sacrifice her own calcium before laying softees... they are *usually* a hiccup of the reproductive system starting up or shutting down more than an actual lack of calcium in the diet.

Hang in there! Hope your hens recover.

Thank you! It may be that the vent is infected and not prolapsed. The chicken I had to cull early in the summer did not have an egg inside at all that I could feel.
Unfortunately I was planning on culling the current sick chicken today as I knew she was not going to get better but I just found her deceased

In terms of the turkey vulture...I would agree with you except I caught it killing my chicken in the run! Was very traumatic for the kids and myself. That was the first chicken we lost. Plenty of shed tears and a beautiful chicken grave dug. Since then....a very very sneaky raccoon was able to scale the side of the coop and sneak into a small hole in the roof soffit and we lost 4 hens. Now this is the 3rd hen lost to an infected and/or prolapsed vent. We started with 20 and now we have 12.

We got the girls for $5 each from a farm that has a large egg production and sells their layers every fall and starts with new layers. They do this to keep their production up. I personally feel that the breed is genetically meant to lay well but in turn is not super healthy for the chicken. Won't be doing this breed again that's for sure!

My ladies do have 24/7 access to oyster shell as well so they can eat that as needed. They layer pellets are 17% and they rarely get "treats" other than lettuce, watermellon etc. I do give them some dried soldier fly larvae when they are moulting for some additional protein.

Anything else I can do?

I am honestly thinking of giving these ladies away and starting new with some good heritage breed layers...

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Anything else I can do?

Wow... you have really faced some trials with the predators!

Very sorry for your and your children's experience, it sounds very traumatic.

$5 is actually very reasonable!

I would consider starting over... but please note that things "happen" with heritage breeds as well... I lost a Swedish Flower hen to egg binding and a Silkie to prolapse. I have had Reds and Leghorns, that never had a problem one... and I actually like Leghorns. But if that farm started with hatchery birds they may have selected well in their next generation... and it seems that this cross from their farm is indeed riddled with an issue. Of course the more birds you have the more you see.

I will pass this on... if you do get others... it is my suggestion that you don't bring them in already grown. The things you are dealing with now sound individual verses other birds could have respiratory things or even Marek's that haven't displayed any symptoms yet. If you are able to raise chicks... I would go that route and only from NPIP sources and incubator (not broody) hatched.

It's hard to know how to feel when a bird passes that you've made the decision was best to dispatch. It's like relief, one that you had made the right decision and two that you don't have to do the deed. But some sadness of course for the loss and at the thought that maybe I could have ended suffering sooner. Even though we process our cockerels... each time is difficult.

The BSFL are awesome. I raise meal worms. Not sure how the fat content on BSFL is, but I know it's a little high on mealies. Other great options are left over meat or extra eggs boiled or scrambled and fed back... they are 34% protein and 64% fat, but loaded with other nutrients.

I truly cannot identify anything you are doing that would change the vent issue... just making sure no one has a poo butt that builds, as some of my ladies don't seem to squat right or SOMETHING and need an occasional cleaning, trimming, or mite treatment.

Glad you found us, here are a couple chicken comparison charts for your future adventure...
http://www.sagehenfarmlodi.com/chooks/chooks.html

https://livestockconservancy.org/images/uploads/docs/pickachicken.pdf

I love so many breeds... but I will recommend Speckled Sussex and Rocks.. for family fun. Other's may meet your overall goal better though... since I don't know what that is yet other than less genetic issues. Good for you for looking to fix the root of the problem and not just the symptom!

 

[Ascentia]

Wow... you have really faced some trials with the predators!

Very sorry for your and your children's experience, it sounds very traumatic.

$5 is actually very reasonable!

I would consider starting over... but please note that things "happen" with heritage breeds as well... I lost a Swedish Flower hen to egg binding and a Silkie to prolapse. I have had Reds and Leghorns, that never had a problem one... and I actually like Leghorns. But if that farm started with hatchery birds they may have selected well in their next generation... and it seems that this cross from their farm is indeed riddled with an issue. Of course the more birds you have the more you see.

I will pass this on... if you do get others... it is my suggestion that you don't bring them in already grown. The things you are dealing with now sound individual verses other birds could have respiratory things or even Marek's that haven't displayed any symptoms yet. If you are able to raise chicks... I would go that route and only from NPIP sources and incubator (not broody) hatched.

It's hard to know how to feel when a bird passes that you've made the decision was best to dispatch. It's like relief, one that you had made the right decision and two that you don't have to do the deed. But some sadness of course for the loss and at the thought that maybe I could have ended suffering sooner. Even though we process our cockerels... each time is difficult.

The BSFL are awesome. I raise meal worms. Not sure how the fat content on BSFL is, but I know it's a little high on mealies. Other great options are left over meat or extra eggs boiled or scrambled and fed back... they are 34% protein and 64% fat, but loaded with other nutrients.

I truly cannot identify anything you are doing that would change the vent issue... just making sure no one has a poo butt that builds, as some of my ladies don't seem to squat right or SOMETHING and need an occasional cleaning, trimming, or mite treatment.

Glad you found us, here are a couple chicken comparison charts for your future adventure...
http://www.sagehenfarmlodi.com/chooks/chooks.html

https://livestockconservancy.org/images/uploads/docs/pickachicken.pdf

I love so many breeds... but I will recommend Speckled Sussex and Rocks.. for family fun. Other's may meet your overall goal better though... since I don't know what that is yet other than less genetic issues. Good for you for looking to fix the root of the problem and not just the symptom!

Thank you for such thoughtful replies

I definitely understand that regardless of breed we will never be free of issues. But I definitely don't want to get good at culling chickens because they keep getting the same problem...if that makes sense.

My plan is definitely to get chicks from incubator....my only concern is cockerels...I am zoned for 42 birds on my land but not roosters. Soooo this puts me in a tough spot. By the time they are ready to be meat chickens they will be crowing already - correct? Not sure my neighbours will appreciate that.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

By the time they are ready to be meat chickens they will be crowing already - correct? Not sure my neighbours will appreciate that

Yes and no... I usually do have a lot of crowing before hand. Some people will simply process younger to forgo any antics, but I like them to have some meat before spending the energy. Our properties are only one acre and I have neighbors all around. Some sleep with their windows open even. I haven't had any issues... but that will be dependent on how far they are and how much the sound carries, as well as how grumpy they may be. I kill my neighbors with kindness and let them know that if they have any issues and approach kindly before they are angry that 100% I will work to resolve the issue, if I'm not already. Though I am zoned to have roosters, when I researching zoning discovered that if my neighbors have issues, so will I. And I really like being a good neighbor! My dogs aggro at the fence... is another challenge.

Sexed chicks from the feed store/hatchery have about 90% accuracy to be female... unless you are OK with processing boys, that would be the best route... or possibly sex linked chicks... those can be 100% accurate... and come from any barred hen to solid male... depending on the cross made would likely effect hardiness some and so I definitely wouldn't get sex links from a hatchery... even though I have seen some people with them 8 years old and still laying on occasion. More often than not they suffer sooner from internal laying or reproductive cancers, so ya best avoided. It definitely makes sense that you don't wanna become good at culling for the same problem! That's a respectable and wise choice.

 

[Ascentia]

Yes and no... I usually do have a lot of crowing before hand. Some people will simply process younger to forgo any antics, but I like them to have some meat before spending the energy. Our properties are only one acre and I have neighbors all around. Some sleep with their windows open even. I haven't had any issues... but that will be dependent on how far they are and how much the sound carries, as well as how grumpy they may be. I kill my neighbors with kindness and let them know that if they have any issues and approach kindly before they are angry that 100% I will work to resolve the issue, if I'm not already. Though I am zoned to have roosters, when I researching zoning discovered that if my neighbors have issues, so will I. And I really like being a good neighbor! My dogs aggro at the fence... is another challenge.

Sexed chicks from the feed store/hatchery have about 90% accuracy to be female... unless you are OK with processing boys, that would be the best route... or possibly sex linked chicks... those can be 100% accurate... and come from any barred hen to solid male... depending on the cross made would likely effect hardiness some and so I definitely wouldn't get sex links from a hatchery... even though I have seen some people with them 8 years old and still laying on occasion. More often than not they suffer sooner from internal laying or reproductive cancers, so ya best avoided. It definitely makes sense that you don't wanna become good at culling for the same problem! That's a respectable and wise choice.

Update:

I have a follow up...

This is my other sick chicken. I just gave her a warm bath but I am thinking maybe she is egg bound? Is it normal for them to get poop stuck around their vents when egg bound?
Here are some pictures. One of her in the bath, One of her first poop out of the bath and one of her hanging out after. She was eating well this morning so I think the bath stressed her out and that is the reason for her sitting this way on the towel
Any thoughts?