Info on raising Melanistic Pheasants!

[007Sean]

Game bird farming is in your blood eh 007Sean. Sounds like your father deserves to have something named after him, or something to that effect. I wonder if he would have been in trouble with Parks and wildlife if they knew he had intentionally released them in the 40's. Would you say pheasants "thrive" in that part of texas?

Your right about the pheasants not being particularly suited to survive harsh winter's. Up here in Canada pheasants do not thrive, the population is supported by government(which means tax payer/hunting licence buyer) sponsored release programs. The daily bag limit on male pheasant is 2/day and the season is fairly short, I believe October 15 to November 30th Even then the ring-necks seam mostly to be found only area's where cereal crops are cultivated. Which is actually a good thing because our native grouse species seam to prefer the natural/native prairie. I have often wondered if pheasants out compete the native grouse species but I must assume that they do not because the sharp-tail grouse bag limit in my area is 5/day; however, with a one month season. Maybe I am wrong to assume that Alberta fish & wildlife's bag limits are in tune with the health of the population.

Hungarian (or grey) partridge are an introduced species which thrives in alberta, to my knowledge there are no release programs to supplement the population, they are completely self sustaining and I assume they do it very well because the hunting bag limit is 5/day and the are in season from september to january. and I can testify that there are plenty of Hungarian partridge around!

here is a link to infro on albertas pheasant release program: http://albertaregulations.ca/huntingregs/birdregs.html#pheasant

and here are the gamebird bag limits: http://albertaregulations.ca/huntingregs/wmu/bird-seasons.html
Ill get some photo's on my melanistic cock today!

No, he was too humble to have anything named after him. At that time, I don't think the P&W would have cared. He released them on his grandfather's farm, the famous Blackwater Drawl runs through the middle of the farm, which was and still is 12 sections ( a section is 640 acres) it was all crop land with the exception of one section, it was and still is today "tall grass prairie". Back then it was dry land farming, today it's all irrigated. This farm has been in the family and continueously farmed by my family since 1910. Tree belts were planted in the 30's, by the WPA, provides shelter belts for the birds but was to keep the soil from blowning away. I occassionaly go out there and hunt our birds. Bag limits are 2 cocks/day and 4 in posession. Season changes from year to year but usually around Dec. 22 and in these 2 counties, yeah the farm is in 2 counties, it last about 2 weeks. Yeah, raising birds is in my blood. Been raising them since I was 7, very kind you can imagine. I'm still learning after all the years. Didn't intend to hijack this thread, so I appologize if it has offended anyone.

 

[AB Gamebird Farmer]

What do you mean "it usually lasts about 2 weeks." 007Sean? yall must be required to report your harvests or something and when the county quota is reached the season is over?

either way sounds like you have an awesome family to be thankful for! so back to pheasants. I see you are raising the following: green melanistic, kansas ring-necked, and southern caucasus. from what I understand about them they should all be able to reproduce with one another and produce viable offspring. exept maybe the souther caucasus. am i right?

 

[007Sean]

What do you mean "it usually lasts about 2 weeks." 007Sean? yall must be required to report your harvests or something and when the county quota is reached the season is over?

either way sounds like you have an awesome family to be thankful for! so back to pheasants. I see you are raising the following: green melanistic, kansas ring-necked, and southern caucasus. from what I understand about them they should all be able to reproduce with one another and produce viable offspring. exept maybe the souther caucasus. am i right?

Yeah, they have check stations, last year the season was Dec.3 -Jan1. 3cocks/day and 6 in possession. Also, have to have an Upland game endorsment along with your regular hunting license.

 

[007Sean]

What do you mean "it usually lasts about 2 weeks." 007Sean? yall must be required to report your harvests or something and when the county quota is reached the season is over?

either way sounds like you have an awesome family to be thankful for! so back to pheasants. I see you are raising the following: green melanistic, kansas ring-necked, and southern caucasus. from what I understand about them they should all be able to reproduce with one another and produce viable offspring. exept maybe the souther caucasus. am i right?

Yes, they will all interbreed.
I also raise/breed P.c. pallasi, P.c. takatsukesae, P.c. zarudyi, P.c. zerafschanicus, P.c. bianchii, P.c. chrysomelas, P.c. strauchi, P.c. mongolicus, P.c. formosanus, P.v. robustipes, P.v. versicolor and P.c. mut. tenebrosus. I don't list all the birds I raise for obvious reasons, take up too much space.
So, getting back to your original question of the offspring of melanistic/regular ring-necked crossed birds. The reciprocal F1 crosses, F2 and backcrosses with common ring-necked pheasants would all show that the melanistic phenotype is the results of a single incompletely dominant autosomal gene. So if you have the symbol M for melanistic, M/M and M/m+ genotypes in the F2 generation, all melanistic birds of this generation would be intermediate and none would show complete extension of black in the plumage. Therefore, it is believed that a single major gene differentiates the melanistic pheasant from a ring-necked one, the maximum expression of the M gene would depend on modifiying genes, which, would have accumulated in the melanistic due to selection. There's still controversy over whether the trait is a true mutation or a results of selection, either natural or man interferance. So, what you read on the website is correct. Excuse the long winded reply but you asked!

 

[AB Gamebird Farmer]

Yes, they will all interbreed.
I also raise/breed P.c. pallasi, P.c. takatsukesae, P.c. zarudyi, P.c. zerafschanicus, P.c. bianchii, P.c. chrysomelas, P.c. strauchi, P.c. mongolicus, P.c. formosanus, P.v. robustipes, P.v. versicolor and P.c. mut. tenebrosus. I don't list all the birds I raise for obvious reasons, take up too much space.
So, getting back to your original question of the offspring of melanistic/regular ring-necked crossed birds. The reciprocal F1 crosses, F2 and backcrosses with common ring-necked pheasants would all show that the melanistic phenotype is the results of a single incompletely dominant autosomal gene. So if you have the symbol M for melanistic, M/M and M/m+ genotypes in the F2 generation, all melanistic birds of this generation would be intermediate and none would show complete extension of black in the plumage. Therefore, it is believed that a single major gene differentiates the melanistic pheasant from a ring-necked one, the maximum expression of the M gene would depend on modifiying genes, which, would have accumulated in the melanistic due to selection. There's still controversy over whether the trait is a true mutation or a results of selection, either natural or man interferance. So, what you read on the website is correct. Excuse the long winded reply but you asked!

I love the longwinded reply! thank you thank you! so if I understand you correctly...
M/M= full extension... ?
M/m+ = intermediate or sometimes just normal plumage (because of the incomplete dominance thing and/or modifiers)
breeding M/M and M/m would statistically result in the following offspring ratio according to mendelian style genetics: MM, MM, mM, and Mm. ?? but wouldnt 50% of the offspring, the MM's, have full extension? im not sure what "M/m+" represents.

or are you saying that if a melanistic, ( MM ) breeds with a normal ( mm ) then none of the offspring will have complete extension. i.e. MM crossed with mm = Mm, Mm, mM, mM.
Perhaps I need to brush up on some basic genetics.

Im going to give my worthless opinion on the controversy just for fun. option A) I think it is a true mutation and it is for some reason a common spontaneous mutation. just like how influenza virus has a tendency to undergo mutations of genes that code for envelope surface proteins. I think this because I have seen a single melanistic cocks being sold at a local monthly auction sale on two occasions from two different sellers.
option B) the melanistic trait is a result of selection. if the melanistic gene was/is associated with some other trait that breeders desire, such as an explosive flush, then breeders would be unintentionally selecting for it.

Google sometimes sucks for finding reliable information eh.
man I miss having online access to a massive database of peer reviewed scientific literature. I graduated on june 1st and the university of Lethbridge has already cancelled my library privileges!

Can you suggest any books that I can buy on amazon?

 

[007Sean]

I love the longwinded reply! thank you thank you! so if I understand you correctly...
M/M= full extension... ?
M/m+ = intermediate or sometimes just normal plumage (because of the incomplete dominance thing and/or modifiers)
breeding M/M and M/m would statistically result in the following offspring ratio according to mendelian style genetics: MM, MM, mM, and Mm. ?? but wouldnt 50% of the offspring, the MM's, have full extension? im not sure what "M/m+" represents.

or are you saying that if a melanistic, ( MM ) breeds with a normal ( mm ) then none of the offspring will have complete extension. i.e. MM crossed with mm = Mm, Mm, mM, mM.
Perhaps I need to brush up on some basic genetics.

Im going to give my worthless opinion on the controversy just for fun. option A) I think it is a true mutation and it is for some reason a common spontaneous mutation. just like how influenza virus has a tendency to undergo mutations of genes that code for envelope surface proteins. I think this because I have seen a single melanistic cocks being sold at a local monthly auction sale on two occasions from two different sellers.
option B) the melanistic trait is a result of selection. if the melanistic gene was/is associated with some other trait that breeders desire, such as an explosive flush, then breeders would be unintentionally selecting for it.

Google sometimes sucks for finding reliable information eh.
man I miss having online access to a massive database of peer reviewed scientific literature. I graduated on june 1st and the university of Lethbridge has already cancelled my library privileges!

Can you suggest any books that I can buy on amazon?

Yeah, you understand what Im saying pretty good! The M/m+ would be the F2 and backcrosses. These would be the carriers of the different genes responsable for the variations. You don't get full extension due to selection or incomplete dominance. Your male bird looks exactly like mine, which, is an offspring of my pure green melanistic parent birds. So, it's abundantly clear that there is no complete extension of the black melanistc gene. Supposably, the melanistic mutation was first found on the estate of Rothschild, in the UK. The story is fuzzy but it is believed that it was bred for the melanistic phenotype. So any melanistics of today, could have any number of other species of true pheasant blood in their lineage. There are wild populations of them all over the UK. I believe the B theory...breeding has taken place unintensionaly and also by design. That's why there is so much variations in the phenotype. At the same time, the first known mutation was a real mutation of nature. As I've said before, "just too many variables", inbreeding, crossbreeding, backbreeding to rely on one single hypothesis.
Some books you may want to read:
The Pheasants of the World, 2nd Ed. Paul Johnsgard
Commercial and Ornamental Game Bird Breeders Handbook, Woodard, Allen, Pran Vohrn, and Vern Denton
The Pheasants of the World 2nd Ed., Jean Delcour
Upland Game Birds Their Breeding and Care, Leyland B. Hayes, self-published
ABC's of Poultry Genetics, Stromberg Publishing.
All are good information and reading, eventhough, some are dated. HTH