eira_barbara

Chirping
Apr 11, 2022
18
38
71
Minneapolis, Minnesota
So we've just bought a new house in Minneapolis, and the previous owners kept poultry. I've been toying with the idea of keeping a few chickens for a couple of years now, and the itch to play with it and see if I like having them around won't go away, so... chickens. (Mostly, I want to watch them moving around the yard, eat eggs, turn fresh kitchen scraps into something useful, and maybe learn a new skill.)

That said: we're holding off for this year because of HPAI. I know I could get them anyway but look, it's going to come back up through the fall migration waterways, there's waterfowl everywhere up here, and it just seems better to wait a winter first. So my thought is this: that gives me a whole summer and fall to make sure that my setup is as low maintenance as possible before adding 3-4 large fowl pullet chicks in the spring. I'm not particularly handy, but my partner is, and I know how to follow instructions fairly well. The run is, er, falling down a bit right now, though the coop is in pretty good shape, assuming it's got sufficient space and ventilation. (Probably? I think there were nine hens and two ducks living there when the previous folks were there, with four half-grown pullets in the garage.)

Here's what I need, in descending order of importance:

Enough space to minimize stress assuming birds are in the run at all times.
I don't need or want to snuggle them much, and while I would like to give them some free range time, I also have two dogs. Maybe they will magically take to chickens and reliably not be a danger to them when unsupervised, and maybe I will also spontaneously grow fairy wings and a nice tiara. (They have a lot less prey drive than the Jack Russell terrors I grew up with, but that's a low bar.) While I'll be working with the dogs to minimize the risk, I would like to make sure I have space for a setup that works without relying on free range access so that the birds won't be too stressed if they wind up spending all their time in the run.

Enrichment ideas are also good--how high up would birds use perches or shelves, do you think? My partner has thoughts about seeing whether we could build something that uses vertical space to give the birds more room within the footprint of our yard, and while I think that sounds potentially useful for enrichment I don't want to put a lot of effort into something that they won't use. (T also would like to put in a catio for the indoor-only cats, whether or not the cats have a tunnel access to it, and is thinking along the lines of using space effectively as much as possible. Obviously the two species should have zero access to one another.)

Predator-safe containment.
Look, death is a part of life, but I would like to minimize my unexpected interactions with it as much as I can. We're in the middle of Minneapolis proper, and there's a one-lane alley that runs behind our garage where all the trash goes; I'd call it "residential urban." I have read some horror stories about raccoons grabbing chickens through chicken wire--which is most of what's on the run itself--and yanking outwards. What are the odds that this happens if I don't make sure that hardwire cloth replaces all that chicken wire?

A good balance between ventilation and warmth
One of the questions I have about the existing coop is that it looks like it might have been set up with much more ventilation and then haphazardly been filled with insulation/had one large window plywooded over because the original design got too cold. I'm a recent transplant to Minnesota from Texas, and while I've lived out one winter here now I am acutely aware that as far as winter conditions go there's still a lot for me to learn. I've been down south for fifteen years, and I'm still adjusting to the reality of winters.

Here's what I'd like:

Minimal daily maintenance and upkeep
I'm very interested in the deep litter/deep bedding methods I see people discussing. I have no idea what the previous methods were. The coop is full of dirty bedding, but that's frankly not unexpected; the previous folks were moving interstate with their own menageries and they seemed pretty time-crunched. I know myself: I would way rather deal with a yearly or quarterly clean-out weekend than reliably clear out muck daily. I would also like to minimize smell if I can, but I'm most concerned about health and welfare for the birds. What flooring works best for that?

Roof high enough to be walkable, at least the run.
Look, this thing is going to need some cleaning no matter what systems we use; I want to make sure that getting in there to clean, check that water is accessible, feed etc. doesn't completely suck. From experience contorting myself around behavioral chambers for rodents at work, that only happens when you design things with an eye towards being able to access them to maintain them.

Roofed run?
It seems like having roofing over the entire run would help give the chickens more space sheltered from some of the worst of the weather and minimize food waste, especially if I put food and water sources in the run rather than the coop. Currently, the previous folks seem to have draped some kind of corrugated plastic over the entire thing; I don't know if that's functional in any way or just a stopgap for HPAI protection. Hard to say. (That actually might be another argument for hardware cloth instead of wire: it'd be good to have a way to keep vermin from going in for scattered or wasted feed.) I don't think it's actually attached to anything.

Rainwater collection?
I have seen some interesting setups that use gutters around coops or runs that can then be directed to a reservoir that supplies the chickens with water. How feasible is that to build, do you think, and would it burst or be damaged by a frozen winter?

Here's what I got:

I've attached my best measurement of the area of the existing run; I think this comes to ~200 sq feet all told. The large box in the upper left is the coop with attached nesting boxes; the small box in the middle is a small square doghouse-type structure that I think must have been for the ducks; the small box in the lower left is a small compost bin that lives by the door out of the run. I'm planning to get rid of the duck house thing; I don't need or want waterfowl. It's fairly well built, so I'll probably offer it free to anyone who wants it on local facebook free exchanges and/or on Craigslist.

The coop is about 20sqft in footprint. I know the general recommendations are for 4sqft per bird in the coop and 10sqft in the run, and obviously the current dimensions are significantly bigger than that. I can't see myself wanting more than maybe six birds; I know chicken math is a thing but I am pretty good at saying "no" if I think additional animals are actually a bad idea.

Like I said, it looks to me like the existing coop (see the photos attached) was originally built with a lot more ventilation that turned out to be too cold and drafty in the winter. Is that okay? What kinds of bedding options do we have with this coop? The previous owners seem to have primarily used pine shavings. My sense is that the coop itself is probably fine, but a lot of the run is falling down a bit and might need some replacing.

We've talked about maybe using dog kennel panels to replace some of the run, which could give us a built in roof structure and a good surface for mounting hardware cloth onto. Or I could simply repair some of the things that are in the run as it is now, like the hole in the skirt of wood fencing half-filled by a rock (!) and the, uh, slightly disintegrating door.

Thoughts?
 

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Last edited:
The coop is about 20sqft in footprint. I know the general recommendations are for 4sqft per bird in the coop and 10sqft in the run, and obviously the current dimensions are significantly bigger than that.
Coop is 60"(5') x 49.5"(~4')?
So....20sqft?

Coop space is very important in your climate, the height of the coop is not conducive to good winter ventilation. Coop shown needs a lot of work before being ready for birds.

in Minneapolis
Welcome to BYC! @eira_barbara
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1651971721984.png
 
Coop is 60"(5') x 49.5"(~4')?
So....20sqft?

Sorry, I meant the run space is larger--~200sqft or so, vs the 40sqft that would be implied by the 10ft per bird rule of thumb for runs. You're perfectly right about the coop space.

Why is height important? I haven't run into that before; do you mind explaining it to me? I admit, I'm confused looking at that coop at the places where pre existing ventilation points seem to have been covered up or insulated; there's a couple of photos where ventilation gaps seem to have been boarded over or filled in with chunks of insulation last minute. The big screen window on one wall that seems to have been boarded over at least makes sense to remove as a source of drafts, but the various points around the roof I find perplexing. You'd think it would be even more important given they had eight or nine hens in there.
 
Sorry, I meant the run space is larger--~200sqft or so, vs the 40sqft that would be implied by the 10ft per bird rule of thumb for runs. You're perfectly right about the coop space.

Why is height important? I haven't run into that before; do you mind explaining it to me? I admit, I'm confused looking at that coop at the places where pre existing ventilation points seem to have been covered up or insulated; there's a couple of photos where ventilation gaps seem to have been boarded over or filled in with chunks of insulation last minute. The big screen window on one wall that seems to have been boarded over at least makes sense to remove as a source of drafts, but the various points around the roof I find perplexing. You'd think it would be even more important given they had eight or nine hens in there.
When the coop is short, it is difficult to have space above their heads for ventilation.

So.... if you put in "enough" ventilation you end up with wind hitting the birds themselves. If you try to keep the wind from hitting the birds, too much is closed up, and you end up with not enough ventilation.

Where there is gobs of snow as well as a long cold season, I highly recommend a HUGE coop, and/or a fully roofed run. The roofed run is to keep the snow out of the run, so the birds will actually use the run!

I have a great article that I wrote on cold weather coops... it should answer a bunch of the questions that you asked...

https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/cold-weather-poultry-housing-and-care.72010/

I would recommend starting over from scratch. Decide if you want a Woods coop, a more traditional coop, or something in between. Again, a roofed run is incredibly helpful.

Also.... having the coop and run connect to a greenhouse is excellent. The chickens can have access to the greenhouse in the winter.
 
Rainwater collection?
I have seen some interesting setups that use gutters around coops or runs that can then be directed to a reservoir that supplies the chickens with water. How feasible is that to build, do you think, and would it burst or be damaged by a frozen winter?
You can do rainwater collection in the summer.

I just had downspouts go into big barrels.

Barrels are dumped out once it gets cold, then stored upside-down or on their side.
 
Enrichment ideas are also good--how high up would birds use perches or shelves, do you think? My partner has thoughts about seeing whether we could build something that uses vertical space to give the birds more room within the footprint of our yard, and while I think that sounds potentially useful for enrichment I don't want to put a lot of effort into something that they won't use.
Depending on breed, chickens can get up pretty high, especially if there's some sort of steps or platforms to help them get up higher.

I have read some horror stories about raccoons grabbing chickens through chicken wire--which is most of what's on the run itself--and yanking outwards. What are the odds that this happens if I don't make sure that hardwire cloth replaces all that chicken wire?
If replacing all the existing wire isn't feasible, I'd suggest at least having the bottom 2' or so covered in hardware cloth, to minimize the change of raccoons reaching in.

Minimal daily maintenance and upkeep
I'm very interested in the deep litter/deep bedding methods I see people discussing. I would way rather deal with a yearly or quarterly clean-out weekend than reliably clear out muck daily. I would also like to minimize smell if I can, but I'm most concerned about health and welfare for the birds. What flooring works best for that?
I'd say deep litter works well for most run environments - arid climates being the biggest exception. A 200 sq ft run is a decent size for 6 birds, so as long as you have no drainage issues at the site, and have a decent mix of litter, odors and mud should be minimal.

Roofing the run?
Roofing the run would offer you better predator and climate protection, though with the way things are built right now, you'd need to add posts around the perimeter of the run to support the roof. Any height restrictions on a build? That could affect the coop too.

The coop is about 20sqft in footprint. I know the general recommendations are for 4sqft per bird in the coop and 10sqft in the run, and obviously the current dimensions are significantly bigger than that. I can't see myself wanting more than maybe six birds; I know chicken math is a thing but I am pretty good at saying "no" if I think additional animals are actually a bad idea.
If you don't want to replace what's there (I don't know how solid it all is, and given the boarded up ventilation it's possible the prev owner didn't take into account wind directions at the location), I'd at least look at expanding the coop. Increase the floor space another 50% or so for 6 birds max, increase the height of walls too if possible, and get ventilation up high where it'll benefit you most.
What kinds of bedding options do we have with this coop? The previous owners seem to have primarily used pine shavings.
Shavings are pretty popular throughout the US as they're easy to get and not too expensive. Other options would be sand, or other organic matter like straw, wood pellets, hemp... I use wood chips in most of my coop since they're free and easy to get as we live in a wooded area, and I use hemp under the roost since it's easier to sift poop out of it.
 
Welcome to BYC and the world of chickens.

You seem to be starting from a solid base here, doing your research and asking great questions.

While chickens don't stack for storage, height is your friend when it comes to proper ventilation. This is what you're looking for in terms of airFLOW:

Airflow Crayon.png


You also need to consider how to protect your vents from blown rain/snow. Generous roof overhangs to shelter soffit and gable vents are one good option. Top-hinged windows are another.

Additionally, though you're in a severe winter climate -- and @Alaskan has told you what you need to know about that -- you are also in a HOT summer climate. Here's my article on that: https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/hot-climate-chicken-housing-and-care.77263/

Some people in that situation have removable wall panels that they take off the downwind side of the coop to provide extra ventilation in hot weather. Others use the top-hinged windows.

This is my article on Deep Bedding in the coop: https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/using-deep-bedding-in-a-small-coop.76343/
 

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