Innova vs Science Diet (c/d prescription)

[Livinzoo]

I had a cat get blocked with crystals on Innova. It was the normal kind before Evo came out. Part of the problem with cats is they don't have a strong thirst drive. They should get moisture from their food and then their urine won't get as concentrated and cause crystals.

I feed raw and have for years. I have one cat that really would prefer not to eat it and I have to grind it for her. So everyone else gets ground, but I have a plate for my grinder that gives chuncks.

The recipe I use calls for 10lbs leg quarters, 2 lbs hearts, 1 lb liver, 8 egg yolks, 8 teaspoons psyllium husk powder, 4 cups filtered water, 8,000 mg salmon oil, 4 teaspoons kelp, 4 teaspoons dulse, 200 mg vit B complex, 1600 mg vit E.

Grind the meat bones and all then mix it all together. This recipe feeds 4 cats for 10 days. I put each serving in tuppaware and store extra in freezer. Thaw in fridge or if you don't have time fill sink with hot water and thaw in there. Do not microwave.

I get my leg quarters from Tyson and pay $15 for a 30lb box.

I plan on starting to raise quail and will slowly switch that cats over to whole pray. My goal is to raise as much of our own meat as I can.

 

[freemotion]

Way to go, Livinzoo. Have you had success with changing older cats over to raw?

What kind of grinder to you use (brand, model, please be specific) and how big are the bone pieces? Obviously you have no problems, but I read conflicting things about grinders and bone bit size. Do your cats munch down the bits or eat around them?

I would love to switch to raw. Philosophically mostly, work-wise second. How long would you say it takes you to prepare your 10 lb batch?

 

[Epona142]

I'm a big believer in that the bones are important to the diet as well. Raw chicken bones are nice and soft, and as kitties have little mouths, they are unlikely to gulp them as some dogs will. More often then not though we do grind bones (raw) and add them. Better safe than sorry right?

While chicken is most common in our diets here (dogs and cats) we also use rabbit, duck, venison, goat, mice, and rat. (Captive bred of course.) We also ensure to feed as much of the prey item as possible, organs, meat, and bone.

Variety is great, and the more you can offer, the happier the kitty. But please don't fret if you can only offer chicken, that's still a great change for them!

That recipe is great! I should look into getting a canner.

 

[freemotion]

Since my cats aren't on raw, that is why I make the broth and add it back into the food, so they will get the minerals. I forgot to add that I put a glug or two of raw cider vinegar into the broth pot to help draw out the minerals. The broth also adds lots of moisture so the cats get lots if they don't go to the water bowl enough. You can actually add even more broth if you are concerned about water intake in your cats, just remember that you will need to feed a bit more volume in food, as the broth gels and it appears to be solid food when a lot can actually be gelled broth. My boys love it.

Uh.....how do you feed mice and rats? Live? Killed and ground whole or dressed? I am picturing dressing a mouse with tweezers!

 

[Livinzoo]

Lets see. My cats were 5, 4, 3, and 1 when I switched to raw. The 1 year old took to it easily. The 4 and 3 year olds were a bit reluctant. The 4 year old was the male cat that had been blocked. They did fine once I got the grinder. The 5 year old is my difficult one. She is still very picky. Although the oldest she is the lowest ranking cat.

I would feed them some warmed raw food in the morning and then kibble at night. Once everyone was eating some raw. The kibble left the house. They say cats know it is there and will hold out for it.

The grinder I got is a no name brand I got from ebay. I have heard the Northern tool grinders work great. A friend of mine switched to raw about 2 years ago and has the northern tool grinder and it does great. It goes on sale for $99 often. http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_36989_36989

It comes with a few plates that will make ground food. I would start a cat on ground from the course plate. You can even mix some canned cat food to entice them to it if need be. I switched to a stuffing plate which gives chunkier food. http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_49933____SearchResults

The cats eat every piece. Bones are small enough that they are manageable. I have had some people go crazy on me and tell me I'm doing wrong by grinding the food. But I will tell you that I don't think I would have even got my cats on raw without it. Except for the youngest.

I had some mice that were bought from the petstore and he caught, killed and ate them. Pretty interesting to watch. My others cats were interested but not enough to catch the mice. I have even given him some of the snakes frozen mice. He had some frozen 2 week old quail the other day and did ok with them. Will need a bit more practice.

If you have any specific questions feel free to PM me or ask them here.

 

[Epona142]

I ah . . . grind them up. Whole.

Puree of mousie.

 

[freemotion]

EEE-EW! AAAAK!

But good for you, in all sincereness. I bought an antique hand-cranked meat grinder and ran a chicken wing through it ONCE and came this close

to puking. Tried to get it out halfway, couldn't, had to continue grinding.

Ooo, now I know what to do with all those squirrels, if I can catch them......

Seriously, I looked at the grinder site, Livinzoo, and I don't see how a thigh bone will make it around that corner and into the twirly thing. It looks very similar to the grinder attachment on my Kitchenaid stand mixer, I could never jam a whole chicken thigh into that thing. I just ground up 12 lbs of pork loin tonight, and I had to cut it into 1" strips, and it had no bones.

A mouse, however, would fit....

 

[briteday]

It's important to feed the bones along with the meat in correct proportions if you are feeding raw to your cat. Google info on phosphorus : calcium ratio and you will find the info you need. Basically phosphorus comes from the meat and of course calcium is in the bone they eat. I feed my 3 dogs and elderly cat a raw diet. The cat was 8 years old when we switched. And although the dogs tend to get something different each day, the cat will only eat ground whole chickens, with bones and organs included. In a prey model diet the goal is for 80% meat, 10% bones, 10% organs.

And to make it really easy, a whole chicken is just about the most perfect P:C ratio without having to work at it. Just add the 10% organs into the mix and you're done. I do not buy the "enhanced" (with broth, salt water) chicken because I do not believe that humans or animals need any additional salt in their diets. It is not healthy for any animal.

I bought a grinder at Cabelas and it was fairly reasonable. I also have the KitchenAid grinder attachment. But grinding the bones is all about the type of motor in the grinder. The KitchenAid is not strong enough to grind bones.

Lastly, cats require taurine in their diets. It is an essential amino acid for them as they cannot manufacture it from what they eat. Most meats will have plenty of taurine for a cat. But just to be sure I supplement by buying the type that comes as a powder in capsules and sprinkle a bit on her food every day. If cats do nto get enough taurine they can have severe heart and vision problems, sometimes leading to death.

Also, I forgot...I have fed Innova but don't know about the crystal consequences with it. And someone asked about Taste of the Wild. That is also a good food for the money, a bit less expensive than Wellness, Solid Gold, Innova. TOTW is what we had the sitter feed our normally raw fed animals while we were gone on vacation for a few months this summer. In any case, I believe that a cat with a crystal problem should be eating a wet diet, canned, raw, whatever...so that they get enough water.

 

[freemotion]

Just checked out Cabella's grinders, they have a bunch in various sizes and prices, many on sale....which one do you have?

I also get points for shopping in certain online stores, points towards free stuff (just ordered my free top-of-the-line under-sink water filtration system, retails for $125) and Cabella's is on the list! More points towards my shower filter that I have my eye on!

But I digress, especially when I get excited and it is way past my bedtime....which grinder? Of course they never say in the description which one will grind a whole chicken, bones and all!

 

[foxonfire]

All my animals were switched from high quality foods, ie Innova, Natures Variety Prarie, Pinnacle, and Solid Gold to name a few....to RAW! 2 years ago to date. This was after my oldest cat (now 7) got blocked on Solid Gold's Katzn-Flocken dry cat food.

After my convential vet told me I "had" to feed this special food (that sucked) for the rest of his life, I called the holistic vet- she agreed that I should stay away from the evil feed, and go with either a raw or dehydrated/freeze dried food (honest kitchen sells a good one)

It wasn't tooo hard to switch the cats over- I was worried about the cat who had blocked- he is by far my most pickest. The other cat eats anything that isn't nailed down and some that is!(he's got pica) I switched very slowly- I made a batch of chicken recipe, and took home some of the sucky can food- Cat would get 1/2 can with some raw on side, soon I was able to completly mix the 2, then phase out the can. Now the cats just about die, if I do not feed them raw. And they are starting to like whole prey too! On occasion I am bad and will feed a good can product or a can fish (salmon or mackerl).

I use the same recipe as LivinZoo, but I change it a bit, I add a glucosamine/MSM and a cranberry supplement. I also make about 30lbs (chicken recipe) instead of 10lbs approx every 2-3 months. Takes me about 2 hours to make the food, including cleanup.

Sometimes I make a 10lb recipe of rabbit instead of chicken, since I raise my own rabbits. On occasion, when I loose a litter

, the cats get whole pinkies, which they love. One cat also eats frozen feeder mice- the other mysteriously cannot eat them- he eats them then the come right back up.

My dh and I are currently experimenting with the recipes, and are hoping to offer them to the public to sell, very soon. Raw Pet food and treats, as well as really cool toys and other products. So far we have raw kitty cakes, raw kitty sausage - makes it easy to give a perfectly proportioned meal- how many oz/lbs per day.... as well as whole prey products. Good for Dogs and Ferrets too!(rabbit, quail- naturally raised)

So far (knock on wood) I have NOT had a single problem. No urinary issues whatsoever- which is awesome. I love RAW!