Integration Panick - Part 2

[ChickenGirl555]

Alright, so if anybody who read my previous Integration Panick thread, you know what is going on. (if you didn't and want to help, here is the link.)

So now I brought the chickens out this morning for about half an hour for the Bigs to see them (but not interact) and so they get used to the cold. Then I put them back and left the house.

When I returned, I took the chicks back outside and did the same thing, except after about 10 mins of see-no-touch, the Littles started looking interested in the Bigs and the Bigs vice versa. So I thought it was safe to let them interact (with supervision). When I placed the Littles in the run, the Bigs began doing the pecking order thing where they peck them on the head a few times. I immediately had the instinct to snatch the chicks away and try to comfort them, but I resisted. So Terry (black chick) began running around, a little confused. Cashew (Naked neck/brown chick) just sat there and moved only a little while the Bigs pecked them. But what I've noticed is that only my Buff Orpington and Barred Rock Bigs peck them...Not the Easter Eggers. So Cashew just sat in the corner as the Bigs kept pecking him.

Then Terry found Cashew and they tried to huddle but the Bigs kept pecking them. The Bigs never drew blood but the chicks squeaked evertime a Big pecked them and it was too much for me and they were getting pretty cold. I once again had the instinct to pick them up, and I did. I brought them inside.

Also @Mrs. K , I'm figuring out what size box I'm going to use but I think after a few more days of temperature adjusting time and interaction time, I'll put them in their box outside. The coop doesn't really have any areas for wind to come in from, since the ventilation areas have white flap, things that stop rain and wind from getting in.

Ok, so that was my step two. Part 3 will be when I move them in the coop or if something big happens before that. Please let me know what I did wrong, what I should do, and what my next step is! Thanks in advance!

 

[ChickenGirl555]

Also here is a picture I took this morning of them.

 

[Mrs. K]

ok - this is what I see. In your run I see a two dimensional space. It is a wide open space so that even if chickens are at each end, they are not out of sight, there is no way to get out of sight of each other. I call it bowing to the queen. A lower chick will come up to the feed bunk. The queen will say, "Hey, mind your manners," and make a gesture or a small peck. This takes energy. Now the lower chicken has to "bow" by moving out of sight of the big bird. I have seen them run away, out of sight, and 20 seconds later come back and everything be just fine.

However, I have also seen, where if they cannot get out of sight, it seems like they are not bowing, but rather giving lip to the upper bird, so now that bird attacks them harder and harder....

In your run, you need to get some old pallets, pieces of plywood and some cement blocks. It will make your run look more cluttered, but it gives 3 dimensions to the run, you add height. A pallet up of cement blocks will allow the smaller birds a place where the big birds will not fee comfortable. I often feed my little ones there. The big birds can crawl under there, but they won't be comfortable and it will slow them down, so it works pretty well.

Lean a pallet against the wall, so that a bird can get behind it, but make sure it is open on both ends so it does not make a trap. Out of sight, is out of mind for most chickens. Straw bails can be stacked up to make a mini wall, so that a feed station can be set up behind it, where a bird could eat out of sight of the main flock eating at the original feed station.

Add a roost in the run, my birds love to sit on the roost in the late afternoon sun. While adding all this will make it look more crowded, it will actually be adding usable space to your run. If you think of area as LxW, but add that same space 3 feet up, so a bird can get under in the shade, or on top in the sun, you have added usable space.

Another idea, once you have things set up in your run, turn out your big girls into the yard and lock them out. Put your littles in the run and let them get the placed figured out without being attacked by the older birds. After a couple of hours, go in and chase them a little bit yourself, so they find the places to hide out. The big girls will get used to seeing them in the run.

The big girls will not just be nice. The trick is to give the little ones a safe place that they can retreat to, out of reach of the big girls, but when they get brave again, go back out amongst the big girls. So when the big ones start pecking, they escape to the safe zone, that is what I mean by a one way gate. This lets the chickens work it out for hours of the day. People do not have the time needed to work this out. A few minutes is not enough. It needs to be, chick gets brave goes out and explores, gets too close, not showing respect, gets a peck or a gesture of a peck, retreats out of reach showing respect...repeat.

Mrs K

 

[Mrs. K]

ps - how many chickens do you have, how big is your set up. It might be the angle of the picture, but it looks like tight quarters. If it is too small, it can make integration very hard. Then you will really need to do the hard part of keeping chickens, decide who stays and who goes.

 

[ChickenGirl555]

ok - this is what I see. In your run I see a two dimensional space. It is a wide open space so that even if chickens are at each end, they are not out of sight, there is no way to get out of sight of each other. I call it bowing to the queen. A lower chick will come up to the feed bunk. The queen will say, "Hey, mind your manners," and make a gesture or a small peck. This takes energy. Now the lower chicken has to "bow" by moving out of sight of the big bird. I have seen them run away, out of sight, and 20 seconds later come back and everything be just fine.

However, I have also seen, where if they cannot get out of sight, it seems like they are not bowing, but rather giving lip to the upper bird, so now that bird attacks them harder and harder....

In your run, you need to get some old pallets, pieces of plywood and some cement blocks. It will make your run look more cluttered, but it gives 3 dimensions to the run, you add height. A pallet up of cement blocks will allow the smaller birds a place where the big birds will not fee comfortable. I often feed my little ones there. The big birds can crawl under there, but they won't be comfortable and it will slow them down, so it works pretty well.

Lean a pallet against the wall, so that a bird can get behind it, but make sure it is open on both ends so it does not make a trap. Out of sight, is out of mind for most chickens. Straw bails can be stacked up to make a mini wall, so that a feed station can be set up behind it, where a bird could eat out of sight of the main flock eating at the original feed station.

Add a roost in the run, my birds love to sit on the roost in the late afternoon sun. While adding all this will make it look more crowded, it will actually be adding usable space to your run. If you think of area as LxW, but add that same space 3 feet up, so a bird can get under in the shade, or on top in the sun, you have added usable space.

Another idea, once you have things set up in your run, turn out your big girls into the yard and lock them out. Put your littles in the run and let them get the placed figured out without being attacked by the older birds. After a couple of hours, go in and chase them a little bit yourself, so they find the places to hide out. The big girls will get used to seeing them in the run.

The big girls will not just be nice. The trick is to give the little ones a safe place that they can retreat to, out of reach of the big girls, but when they get brave again, go back out amongst the big girls. So when the big ones start pecking, they escape to the safe zone, that is what I mean by a one way gate. This lets the chickens work it out for hours of the day. People do not have the time needed to work this out. A few minutes is not enough. It needs to be, chick gets brave goes out and explores, gets too close, not showing respect, gets a peck or a gesture of a peck, retreats out of reach showing respect...repeat.

Mrs K

Ok, this weekend I am going to cut up some boxes and use them as hiding spaces in the run and coop for the chicks—some holes too small for the Bigs but big enough for the Littles to get into. The chicks did sort of sit in the corner and ‘bow’ as the Bigs pecked them. Is this what you mean? I will have tons of time this weekend to let the chickens have time in the coop and run to get used to it. My friend might be coming to help me, too.

 

[ChickenGirl555]

ps - how many chickens do you have, how big is your set up. It might be the angle of the picture, but it looks like tight quarters. If it is too small, it can make integration very hard. Then you will really need to do the hard part of keeping chickens, decide who stays and who goes.

I have 6 pullets and the chicks. I only have the one coop, and the cop itself is REALLY big. I could fit about 30 chickens their size on the roosts, the chickens have plenty run space because part of the run is also underneath the coop. We have plenty room to add these chicks and 1-2 more in the spring.

 

[junebuggena]

Def

I have 6 pullets and the chicks. I only have the one coop, and the cop itself is REALLY big. I could fit about 30 chickens their size on the roosts, the chickens have plenty run space because part of the run is also underneath the coop. We have plenty room to add these chicks and 1-2 more in the spring.

Define "plenty" using exact dimension. What you think is big enough might not be what your chickens think is big enough. And you also need to factor in that your older pullets are still just chicks themselves. They still have a lot more growing to do. You need a minimum of 4 sq ft per bird in the coop and at least 12 sq ft of run space per bird, with those Barred Rocks in the flock (they REALLY need their elbow room).

 

[Mrs. K]

Just remember, neither the pullets or the chicks are full size, they are going to get a lot bigger. Very frequently what appears to be enough space when the birds are young, is NOT enough space when the birds are full grown. If you look around this forum, you will find a lot of posts, where these chicks have been raised together, always gotten along just fine, until they were 6-8 months old, and then they start attacking each other. They do not have enough space. Lack of space causes a lot of ugly behaviors in chickens, truly ugly.

 

[ChickenGirl555]

Def

Define "plenty" using exact dimension. What you think is big enough might not be what your chickens think is big enough. And you also need to factor in that your older pullets are still just chicks themselves. They still have a lot more growing to do. You need a minimum of 4 sq ft per bird in the coop and at least 12 sq ft of run space per bird, with those Barred Rocks in the flock (they REALLY need their elbow room).

Well I'm not home right now so I can't get measurements, but they do get to free roam when I'm supervising. The pullets haven't been 'complaining' about the space, and I think space-wise I'm good. Plus soon I'll be able to have more time with them, so then they will be able to free roam every day.

 

[ChickenGirl555]

Just remember, neither the pullets or the chicks are full size, they are going to get a lot bigger. Very frequently what appears to be enough space when the birds are young, is NOT enough space when the birds are full grown. If you look around this forum, you will find a lot of posts, where these chicks have been raised together, always gotten along just fine, until they were 6-8 months old, and then they start attacking each other. They do not have enough space. Lack of space causes a lot of ugly behaviors in chickens, truly ugly.

Yes I'm aware. I'm sorry if I keep asking the same questions, or do something wrong. These are my first chickens and I have been a huge animal person my whole life, but never really dealt with this problems.