Interesting article on predators

[Dogfish]

Nothing personal, but it isn't that simple, and your example is a gross oversimplification. Thinning the herd certainly worked on wolf populations until they started to be reintroduced. Pretty hard to argue that. The vacuum doesn't fill instantly. Consistent management of the herd works. Having a dog on the property works. Dropping the dead coyotes in the path they take works. Life is not a Disney movie where when one coyote dies, another one is immediately drawn.

If I shoot the female coyote with 10 pups in her litter, fewer of them will survive because there is one less gatherer. Taking coyotes in the spring really reduces numbers for a longer period of time. If she's pregnant, that is 11 with 1 shot.

I kill 20 or more coyotes every year. Best year was 60+. I usually take 3 or 4 within 2 miles of our house. Best in one spot was 4, one charged in while the other three hung back at 140 yards. We took the furthest ones first, and then dropped the close one.

Sorry, not buying it.

 

[woodmort]

Quote:
I assume that is a pun.
At any rate the information is correct about populations of coyotes as determined by those that study them. The only way you can decimate populations is to destroy their environment. Get rid of your chickens and domestic animals and let your land go to heavy woods and the coyotes will go elsewhere. You can kill all of them in your area and within a year or two others will move in to fill the void if there is prey available. The only alternative would be to kill them faster than they can reproduce--this is what happened to wolves and buffalo but coyotes are too smart for that, that's why they have extended their range. For every one you see, there are three or four you don't. Several years ago I talked to a wildlife biologist that told me there is a family of coyotes on every hilltop from the Atlantic to the Mississippi with loners moving between them looking for a niche to fill.

 

[midget_farms]

In the end we each have to decide how we want to address the issue locally. I prefer to leave them alone & remove any that learn chicken is easy prey. Others prefer to shoot first & ask questions later - still others would like to keep things in balance by trying to teach a very smart predator to keep others out & are OK with the occasional tax paid to this predator.

Thats the cool thing about these forums - we all get our own opinion on the ideas expressed here - but in the end we get to make our own decisions on what to do & our decisions and opinions do not make us better or worse than anyone else.

 

[theFox]

Quote:
I assume that is a pun.
At any rate the information is correct about populations of coyotes as determined by those that study them. The only way you can decimate populations is to destroy their environment. Get rid of your chickens and domestic animals and let your land go to heavy woods and the coyotes will go elsewhere. You can kill all of them in your area and within a year or two others will move in to fill the void if there is prey available. The only alternative would be to kill them faster than they can reproduce--this is what happened to wolves and buffalo but coyotes are too smart for that, that's why they have extended their range. For every one you see, there are three or four you don't. Several years ago I talked to a wildlife biologist that told me there is a family of coyotes on every hilltop from the Atlantic to the Mississippi with loners moving between them looking for a niche to fill.

I've heard of wildlife biologists, now ask them what would happen if a good number of those coyotes were sterilized.

ETA: Corrections long day.

 

[Dogfish]

Predator numbers generally increase or decrease based upon the amount of prey available, if left alone. Add into that continual harrassment by hunters, and the population is held lower. The habitat of the wolf was not destroyed. The population was aggressively hunted, held to a lower population, then brought to a level where they couldn't sustain their numbers. That is, until wolves started being reintroduced. I would agree that if everyone was to stop hunting, populations would increase and fall much more wildly.

We are seeing this in Washington State where bear and cougar hunting with hounds was outlawed, as was hunting bears over bait. These are some of the most effective methods taken out of the wildlife department's management tool box, so you see more interactions with bears and cougars today than you did 20 years ago. Harvest rates went down in both cases, so populations rose. The same thing is happening in New Jersey, California, and other states. Feel good legislation that limits wildlife management is a threat to everybody, even though it might make you feel warm and fuzzy inside in the beginning. It isn't until the end result becomes apparent that realization sets in. Peeing your pants in a snowstorm also feels good, for a while.

I am not the only person hunting coyotes in my area, so they see a fair amount of pressure within 20 miles of my house. Calving season is the best time, as there are plenty of fat and stupid targets. Constant pressure keeps the numbers down, and they are hunted year round. I know that taking out a family of 5 coons in one evening certainly brought down numbers in our area for the last two years.

Taking out the odd coyote, I might agree would have littel effect, but there are those us who are a bit more determined.

 

[woodmort]

Here is an article by Bob Chambers (an excellent wildlife biologist) that is the result of research into the coyotes in NYS. There is one interesting statement in regard to what would be necessary to lower the population that is worth noting. http://www.esf.edu/pubprog/brochure/coyote/coyote.htm I don't claim to be a expert on coyotes but I have been following research on the NYS variety since I first saw pups in the Catskills on August 15, 1945 at 3:15 in the afternoon. Why do I remember? It was V-J day and they were howling at the sirens blasting in the towns around where my family and I were fishing. BTW in NYS one can only hunt them from Oct. 1 to March 27 after that it is SSS.

ETA: BTW, we have a den about 1/2 a mile from my house and I lost my Springer Spaniel to an attack 16 years ago so I not have any particular love for them, just respect. As long as they leave me alone I won't bother with them either.

 

[puredelite]

The article was interesting to read and maybe there was a fairytale ending for the person who had the time to educate one coyote to be a defendent of his property. Unfortunately I live in the real world where coyotes take not only my lambs but also grown goats given the opportunity. I only wish that my resident coyotes were like the one's in the article that are foolish enough to get within rock throwing range! I would "rock" them alright! I do realize that it is a never ending struggle to keep their numbers under control and my shooting and trapping them doesn't seem to put a dent in the population, but don't think I would ever be able to convince them that lambs don't taste good. Hopefully with the addition of my Great Pyr dog they will learn to respect his territory and for the slow learners I will continue to teach them to "lay and stay"....

 

[TomG]

Quote:
I have not had the experience of "peeing your pants in a snow storm" so I will have to defer to others on that.

I think that it is obvious that killing preditors reduces the population by the number killed. And I don't disagree with killing them. But training the ones that are there not to kill may have some merit.

 

[theFox]

You mean the statement about reducing their numbers by 70% to have a lasting impact.

I'd love to see the work up on that figure.

I suspect I have a den close by me as well given the sign I'm seeing, we will find out shortly. Mating season is fast approaching.

BTW, there are rather large dogs on either side of me, seems these coyotes don't give a hoot.

I'll just have to visit the old woodchuck dens I know of.

No closed season on coyotes in Maine. Night hunting is also allowed at this time of year.

 

[woodmort]

Quote:
I suspect that is a statistical tipping point in terms of the numbers to be sure of having mates--for example one needs 6 individuals to statistically be sure of having one of each sex. But, given that a young coyote will range 100 miles to find a new territory that means you'd have to clear a pretty big area.

Yeah, we can use lights here to hunt this time of year as well. However, if one is hunting with a shotgun they cannot carry slugs. Rifle is ok I guess so don't ask me why except the DEC frowns on jacking deer.