Internal laying again?

[rebrascora]

If this came on relatively suddenly then it is probably less likely to be internal laying but possibly salpingitis (infection of the oviduct)..... that hunched lower back suggest it or perhaps Fatty Liver Haemorrhagic Syndrome causing a sudden and
severe case of ascites, which is putting pressure on the heart and/or respiratory system.
Sadly I would agree with @lazy gardener that it would be kinder to end her suffering now as there is nothing you can really do for any of those ailments at this advanced stage other than trying to drain which might only buy her a little time anyway.

Would you feel able to open her up and see what the problem is after you euthanize her? I would be interested to see photos of her internal organs and read what you find if you are not too phased by the idea. It can be beneficial to learn from these sad events by improving our knowledge.

 

[rebrascora]

I see our posts crossed. I am pleased she is no longer suffering. Well done for carrying out that difficult task.

 

[Jamie Molihan]

She was so beautiful, I am so sorry that you lost your girl. You really are a brave person, and selfless to give her a quick end.

 

[Chicken Girl1]

If this came on relatively suddenly then it is probably less likely to be internal laying but possibly salpingitis (infection of the oviduct)..... that hunched lower back suggest it or perhaps Fatty Liver Haemorrhagic Syndrome causing a sudden and
severe case of ascites, which is putting pressure on the heart and/or respiratory system.
Sadly I would agree with @lazy gardener that it would be kinder to end her suffering now as there is nothing you can really do for any of those ailments at this advanced stage other than trying to drain which might only buy her a little time anyway.

Would you feel able to open her up and see what the problem is after you euthanize her? I would be interested to see photos of her internal organs and read what you find if you are not too phased by the idea. It can be beneficial to learn from these sad events by improving our knowledge.

how would you go about it? I'm not thrilled by the idea but I am interested in learning.

 

[Chicken Girl1]

Thank you everyone for your help and kind words!

 

[Jaguar61]

So sorry it had to happen

 

[rebrascora]

I spread out an old feed bag on an outdoor table or work surface. I roughly pluck the abdomen.... don't worry if you tear the skin a bit. With the bird on her back, make a small side to side cross cut just where her breast bone ends. I use a sharp knife or scissors. You can't accidentally puncture the gut at that point, so it is a "safe" location to open up the abdominal cavity. If she has ascites, there will be a lot of fluid inside the cavity. Tip that out into a suitable container and then start to carefully cut away the skin and tissue to reveal the organs. Extend the cross cut to each side and then from the centre of that cross incision, cut towards the vent, using your finger inside the lift the skin and tissue away from the gut. You are looking to expose the internal organs without cutting them. Sometimes it helps if you can dislocate the hips (cut the ligaments pop them backover) so that the bird lies on it's back more easily without rolling over. You can then use pruning shears to snip through the rib cage on each side to lift the breast bone back and reveal the heart, liver and lungs, but the majority of your interest should probably focus on the reproductive tract which is below the liver and the intestines. If she had Fatty Liver Disease, the liver will be soft and mushy and may be ruptured and will probably have a greeny/yellow cast. Photos of the liver can be helpful. The ovaries will be behind and below the liver and gizzard. If she was internally laying, there will be discs of rubbery egg yolk material in the abdominal cavity layered and interspersed between the liver and guts. If she had salpingitis, then you will probably find a large whitish duct (the oviduct) filled with lumpy lash egg material. The intestines are usually pink when healthy and there should be no unpleasant smell unless you cut them open..... I usually do that last after I palpitate them to feel for any round worms.
If you do a Youtube search for chicken necropsy or eviscerating chickens, you will hopefully get some idea of what you are aiming for and what you will encounter. Apart from cutting open the intestine, nothing should smell bad unless there is infection and there will be no bleeding because blood clots after death, so other than there possibly being a lot of fluid inside her from ascites, it should not be an overly messy operation. Please take lots of photos if you do it.
You have done the hard part, helping her out of her pain. I find opening them up is much easier and fascinating once you get your head round the emotional aspect.
Good luck

Barbara

 

[Michael Propst]

I am so sorry for your loss.

I am still pretty new to raising chickens and this is the first I have heard of internal laying. I am wandering if this may be what my 14 month old White Rock (Dottie) is going through.

For the past 4 weeks has started laying soft shell eggs in the middle of the night. This started just as spring start to set on. She did occasionally lay a normal egg during the day but more typically I have found a broken soft shelled egg under were she roosts at night. I am not experiencing problems with any of the other 5 hens I have. They are on a healthy layer diet and I always have oyster shell available in a separate bowl. They also get a good amount of time to free range my backyard. Other than laying soft shelled eggs in the middle of the night from her roost she appeared to be completely normal and healthy.

4 days ago I started finding a clear slime in her dropping in the morning. Besides the egg issue she has seemed fine and normal running around with the others, eating and drinking until Saturday afternoon. She was fine in the morning when I opened the run to let them out into the backyard for the day, then late afternoon I notice her a bit lethargic laying under a tree. I went out to check on her and she did get up and start to move around digging at the ground, then 15 minutes later I found her laying down behind a storage box. She appeared weak. Not knowing what I am completely dealing with I immediately set up a dog kennel in the garage and isolated her from the others. She has been eating and drinking in there and getting up on the roost I put in the kennel for her but still seems to have no real energy. I am pretty certain this is now a reproductive issue with her. This is where I need input from this community.

The vet I go to does have a Avian certified vet (she has not allot of experience with chickens and deals more with exotic birds) so I took Dottie in yesterday. They did find a remnant of a egg shell (just the shell, picture and xrays attached) in her reproductive track by an xray and were able to remove it. Temp was normal, and nothing else seen on the xray. They also did a blood panel and sent it off to the lab, results should be back Wednesday or Thursday. She seems a little more perky but I am going to keep her isolated for a few more days to keep an eye on her droppings and just observer her more. She did not want to eat her layer feed last night figured it was a stressful day so I chopped up a boiled egg and sprinkled some herbs on it and she did gobble it down. Also the droppings in the kennel this morning looked more normal than what I had seen the previous days. Pictures of everything attached. She has not really laid normal for 3 weeks any advise or information you all can provide would be most helpful

 

[Eggcessive]

Sorry for your loss, ChickenGirl1.

 

[rebrascora]

@Michael Propst
This is unlikely to be internal laying but some other malfunction of the reproductive tract. With internal laying, ripe yolks are released from the ovary but fail to travel into the oviduct and instead, fall into the abdominal cavity in amongst the intestines and around the liver. Over time they solidify and are compressed into discs and the fluid leeches out and ascites develops where the abdomen becomes bloated with fluid in the lowest area between the legs and these eggy discs floating above. Usually once this starts the hen is unable to lay eggs normally as the weight of the fluid and yolks pulls the ovary and oviduct further out of alignment. Sometimes internal laying will occur as a result of an infection of the oviduct(salpingitis), where the oviduct becomes impacted with infected egg material and pus which is often referred to as "lash egg". The item removed from your hen in the 6th photo looks like it is the start of a lash egg and antibiotics would probably be a good idea.

As regards your "healthy layer" feed, I have the feeling we have discussed this before and you feed a grain type mash rather than a pellet or crumble. As you may know I have reservations about such feeds enabling hens to select individual components of the feed and thereby not receive a balanced diet, which is extremely important for chickens reproductive systems because they are working at a far higher capacity than nature ever intended. Apologies if I am mistaken on this but if I am correct, you might want to consider changing to a pelleted feed if you can get her over this difficult patch.

Laying soft shelled eggs is extremely hard work for a hen.... lots more effort than a hard shelled egg..... so it is not surprising that she looks weary at times. Infections in the oviduct may not show up in blood work because the nature of the organ is such that it draws a large nutrient content from the blood but there is little or no return and the consistency of the pus in lash eggs and chicken pus in general is more solid so the infection remains very localised to the oviduct and isn't spread.
Good luck with your girl. I hope she pulls through this.