International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[Bantambird]

View attachment 3631954My copy of The British Poultry Standard is very old, I think the first edition they made once it was given that name. This is the picture for Marans (English type obviously) but I have some problems with it. I’m not a big fan of how the English standard changes them, but these pictures just don’t seem right. The tails are high and they seem too short in the body, with long legs.

I have a good idea of what a proper type should look like because I’ve learned from people on this thread, I’d just like to share this to show how even the British Poultry Club don’t seem to understand these birds.

When I eventually breed English types for show I think I’m going to try and keep as close to the proper type as I can while still meeting the standard described in the book.

They kind of look like Barred Plymouth Rocks with slightly shorter tails, in this entry.

 

[chickengr]

My rescued Foxterrier X Jack Russel mix did stop.

He killed my then favourite hen which was fenced separately with her sister to recover from overmating and moult.

He was extremely attached to me, we had a very special bond, and it was pure horror for him that I screamed at him while throwing the dead hen at his head every time he tried to get near me.

I did not allow him near me for the entire day while otherwise totally ignoring him, which left a lifelong impression on him and her never again harmed or chased or killed any other of my birds, not even guineas or chicks running wild in our yard and garden.
Instead he began to defend them against hawks, owls and foxes.

I still fed him like all my other dogs to this day, raw and unprocessed food, often my own chickens too.
But he learned not to touch my birds dead or alive unless I gave them to him for a meal.


View attachment 3631467

He was a great hunting dog and scent hound and I still miss and remember him very fondly.

my german shepherd female never learned the lesson. her mother seems to understand she should not harm chickens/ducks/geese but I cannot trust her any more.

when my geese start laying and become aggressive I plan to put the naughty girl with them. this is the only way she can learn something. I will supervise it, of course.

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

Marans chicks developing their features now. Blue copper is likely a pullet, hardly and ground colour and very small comb, middle BCM cockerel with red shoulders and copper on chest, big pink comb and wattles. Left BCM I’m not sure, it seems paler in colour of face with small wattles but a bigger comb, lots of copper and either rust or male coloured shoulders. This one is the yellow legged one.

Middle BCM shoulders, I’ve increased the saturation because the photo was dark. Almost definitely male but not much copper yet, still only young though.

the left hand one, also increased saturation. More patches of red but less concentrated on shoulder. Full copper on hackle already. Black less shiny compared to other.

I’m not asking for sexing desperately because I know they’re at an early stage still.

I’ve attached Bonus photos because I have no one else to show: the little one, showing that he really isn’t pure because of that silver on his neck and chest, won’t even try sexing because he’s so behind (don’t know why I say he).
Captain Jack, Blue and Loki moulting their tails, Loki’s squirrel tail almost gone! For now anyway
And Freddy because he’s the only chook who poses for photos

 

[Chooks man]

View attachment 3632482Marans chicks developing their features now. Blue copper is likely a pullet, hardly and ground colour and very small comb, middle BCM cockerel with red shoulders and copper on chest, big pink comb and wattles. Left BCM I’m not sure, it seems paler in colour of face with small wattles but a bigger comb, lots of copper and either rust or male coloured shoulders. This one is the yellow legged one.View attachment 3632485Middle BCM shoulders, I’ve increased the saturation because the photo was dark. Almost definitely male but not much copper yet, still only young though.View attachment 3632486the left hand one, also increased saturation. More patches of red but less concentrated on shoulder. Full copper on hackle already. Black less shiny compared to other.

I’m not asking for sexing desperately because I know they’re at an early stage still.

I’ve attached Bonus photos because I have no one else to show: the little one, showing that he really isn’t pure because of that silver on his neck and chest, won’t even try sexing because he’s so behind (don’t know why I say he).
Captain Jack, Blue and Loki moulting their tails, Loki’s squirrel tail almost gone! For now anyway
And Freddy because he’s the only chook who poses for photos

the cockerel in the midddle is te best one ,has that marans head and look .
the litle blue one is a cockerel .
chooks man

 

[bigsurfwaves]

My livestock guardian Zeus is a Pyrenees/ Akbash cross ( both guardians) and he was early on trained not to mess with the poultry. My other dog, Apollo, he is an English Mastiff/ St Bernard cross, he was taught by me early on that the birds are my property and he is not to even look at them unless I tell him to. Young livestock guardians are still puppies, and can have puppy moments until they are 2 years old. I have found that to get the puppy energy out, Apollo and Zeus have regular playdates. They have both been boundary trained so they know where all the property borders are, I walked with them along the boundaries every day for several months, with verbal reprimand when they would find a place they thought they might escape. Zeus knows what animals he is to protect, and I give him an outlet for his puppy energy by either playing with him myself for a little while or putting Apollo out for a playdate. I try not to let other dogs interact with Zeus so he maintains aloofness with dogs outside the family. We also do basic command training, a dog that is 130 lbs (59 kilos) and an independent thinker like a livestock guardian needs to be able to be recalled if he corners a vagrant, or basic sit and down commands, let me handle his paws and tail. There were a few times where he tried playing with the poultry while he was under a year old, I spent a lot of time with him during that period, so I could catch and correct bad behavior. I am always mucking about in the farm yard anyways, the work never ends, so I just always kept an ear and an eye out while I was working outside. He tends to hang out near the poultry more than the goats now, because he tends to be where I am, but he is never so far from the goats that he couldn't charge out there if he heard something he didn't like. Dairy goats never roam real far.
Once he kills a bird, you will have to work with him closely to stop this. Livestock guardians will bond VERY close to their family, and if you are family, he will not want to disappoint you. Zeus takes verbal correction very much to heart and he tries to correct behavior fairly quickly, but for any dog, it will need consistency to correct once blood has been tasted. Good luck!

I had a Great Pyrenees that was absolutely wonderful with small animals and children. She was a calm and a vigilant protector. This new dog I believe is mixed and has no dew claws. My son is afraid of her and I am starting to be unable to handle her. I worked with her A LOT this summer for HOURS each day and she took advantage of the free time I rewarded her with by killing chickens and burying/hiding them.. all done in secret while unsupervised momentarily. I have tied her onto a runner near the chickens for the time being. A decision must be made. She has killed several over the course of several months and the only time she does not stalk and kill them is when she is being watched closely. I don't believe she will ever stop and I am heartbroken to give her up. But I feel it is imminent.

 

[bigsurfwaves]

View attachment 3632482Marans chicks developing their features now. Blue copper is likely a pullet, hardly and ground colour and very small comb, middle BCM cockerel with red shoulders and copper on chest, big pink comb and wattles. Left BCM I’m not sure, it seems paler in colour of face with small wattles but a bigger comb, lots of copper and either rust or male coloured shoulders. This one is the yellow legged one.View attachment 3632485Middle BCM shoulders, I’ve increased the saturation because the photo was dark. Almost definitely male but not much copper yet, still only young though.View attachment 3632486the left hand one, also increased saturation. More patches of red but less concentrated on shoulder. Full copper on hackle already. Black less shiny compared to other.

I’m not asking for sexing desperately because I know they’re at an early stage still.

I’ve attached Bonus photos because I have no one else to show: the little one, showing that he really isn’t pure because of that silver on his neck and chest, won’t even try sexing because he’s so behind (don’t know why I say he).
Captain Jack, Blue and Loki moulting their tails, Loki’s squirrel tail almost gone! For now anyway
And Freddy because he’s the only chook who poses for photos

Purdy! As we say in Georgia

 

[Bantambird]

I had a Great Pyrenees that was absolutely wonderful with small animals and children. She was a calm and a vigilant protector. This new dog I believe is mixed and has no dew claws. My son is afraid of her and I am starting to be unable to handle her. I worked with her A LOT this summer for HOURS each day and she took advantage of the free time I rewarded her with by killing chickens and burying/hiding them.. all done in secret while unsupervised momentarily. I have tied her onto a runner near the chickens for the time being. A decision must be made. She has killed several over the course of several months and the only time she does not stalk and kill them is when she is being watched closely. I don't believe she will ever stop and I am heartbroken to give her up. But I feel it is imminent.

It sounds like it's time, then. My boy, though a cross, is crossed with another livestock guardian, although Akbash can be more reserved with humans outside of their family and are more likely to pursue and kill predators, they are taller, leaner, longer snout, but still a big white fluffy dog. He did inherit the double dewclaws.
He will definitely kill predators that he can catch. I think he likes to bury and eat them, too. Caught him worrying an old skunk carcass, ewww. He will steal every egg he finds. No egg is safe.

 

[Chooks man]

today I put together a small coop ( old duck house ) for my first breders pen . the area I selected to put the coop is a garden space ,there is nothing in it for a moment has a lot shade and green grass .
the rooster is Rashad the only rooster I have up here ,he is a silver/golden dark cucckoo .his sire is Shamrock and his Dam is DarkEye .
the hens I selected for him are all solid blue or solid black except Amor she is BC with a minimum copper on her and White Orchid recessive white hen.
1- Amore BC she throw progeny with less copper marking .
2- DarkEye solid Blue, Rashad s Dam
3- Dark Angel Dark solid Blue
4- Zenyatta Solid Black
5 - Black Caviar solid Black she is Amor s X Black Mamba daughter
6- SahraDesse Solid Blue
7-HalfComb solid Blue
8 - Natooshka solid light blue
9- White Orchid Recessive white the only white I have.

with this pairing I m trying to produce solid Black and solid Blue cockerels except with a white hens I ll produce split white .

Let see what the result will be .

not the best looking coop but will do the job for now till I fininsh build a proper breeding pens .
chooks man

 

[bigsurfwaves]

It sounds like it's time, then. My boy, though a cross, is crossed with another livestock guardian, although Akbash can be more reserved with humans outside of their family and are more likely to pursue and kill predators, they are taller, leaner, longer snout, but still a big white fluffy dog. He did inherit the double dewclaws.
He will definitely kill predators that he can catch. I think he likes to bury and eat them, too. Caught him worrying an old skunk carcass, ewww. He will steal every egg he finds. No egg is safe.

I was going to keep working with her but I can't watch her 24/7 and AS SOON AS I take my eyes off - she has the predator drive of a cougar. She just eliminated the dark and blue eggs from my basket entirely and I've got a few that won't lay at 6-7 months old because they are stressed I believe. However - there is WAY too much wildlife around me to not have a dog working the property. Has anyone had luck with Bernese Mountain Dogs? I know someone with a few pups mixed between them and Pyrenees. These folks have raised sheep and Pyrenees for 45 years and their dogs have been sold to Amish poultry keepers. I have found other Pyr breeders but I am not paying $2500-$4000 for an AKC registered dog from a show line!

 

[Chooks man]

I was going to keep working with her but I can't watch her 24/7 and AS SOON AS I take my eyes off - she has the predator drive of a cougar. She just eliminated the dark and blue eggs from my basket entirely and I've got a few that won't lay at 6-7 months old because they are stressed I believe. However - there is WAY too much wildlife around me to not have a dog working the property. Has anyone had luck with Bernese Mountain Dogs? I know someone with a few pups mixed between them and Pyrenees. These folks have raised sheep and Pyrenees for 45 years and their dogs have been sold to Amish poultry keepers. I have found other Pyr breeders but I am not paying $2500-$4000 for an AKC registered dog from a show line!

45 years ,thet dogs must be well bred for sure specially if they sold to Amish poultry keepers. no you don t need to pay that much money for a dog no way I ll pay that .
good luck to you ,hope you will find what are you looking for.
chooks man