International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[wrathsfarm]

Yes I was thinking a rooster or broody hen might work to train a pup from an early age NOT to mess with birds

I'm more afraid of a hell bent broody than any Rooster.

 

[bigsurfwaves]

Burnese mountain dogs are considered a working dog, related in demeanor and stature to other mastiff and mossler type dogs. I have worked with my boy Apollo, but he would never make a "true" livestock guardian. He loves being a pet and general farm dog more. It may or may not work, but definitely not impossible. I got my boy Zeus from a farm advertising on Craigslist. If you get a cross, look for a cross of two livestock guardian breeds. You can get both hybrid vigor and a set of parents that both are bred towards guarding livestock. Livestock guardians are bred to naturally have a low prey drive paired with a high 'guard' drive. They have a lot of specific behaviors that lend to their job that centuries of breeding have led to. I would honestly recommend only purchasing livestock guardian breeds to do the work, and they need to have been dam raised outdoors from working parents, with first vaccinations. The parents teach the pups right from the start not to play with livestock. That's not to say the owner doesn't interact with them, guarding chickens will require a people friendly dog, however, a pup needs a good foundation. Some people kennel the livestock guardians while they are under a year to prevent bad interactions that might set a bad precedent.
Some breeds of livestock guardian are better suited than others for poultry. While Great Pyrenees are traditionally excellent livestock guardians with a long history, some people have taken to breed them to be house pets. The qualities that make good guardians make for terrible house pets, but sometimes these pet bred dogs get mixed in with true guardians, and you loose some of their desirable traits.
Good luck in your search!

Exactly! This is funny: I was scolded by a person who founded a pet nonprofit just yesterday. She said that people like me - who expect a Great Pyrenees to be a LGD - were causing a BIG problem because not all these dogs are meant to be farm dogs and keeping them outside is cruel. . Uh... ok. These dogs have been bred for centuries to be LGDs... that is until everyone who likes fluffy white dogs decided to want them as a pet and the breeders started breeding for QUANTITY not quality. The pet demand is the real problem. And people making money off animals that are not raised to carry traits that have been developed over centuries of breeding. She also scolded me for not spaying the dog until the first heat cycle... which in giant breeds I have been advised by several vets to wait to insure better bone development and prevent early hip dysplasia. She made the point preventing of mammary cancer which Pyrs have low risk for cancer unless you shave them and expose the pink skin. I finally asked her how many Pyrs she'd owned... zero of course.

 

[bigsurfwaves]

here Rashad s comb ,very bad lobe ,coronation type . the rest of the comb is good .
all the hens is penned with have a good to great comb except White Orchid she has a M type double point at the middle of the comb . ones I get the rest of the rooster from Sydney farm I ll pen here with Rashad s sire Shamrock .
View attachment 3635307
chooks man A golden cuckoo with the good rich dark black against gold. Nice!

 

[Chooks man]

Exactly! This is funny: I was scolded by a person who founded a pet nonprofit just yesterday. She said that people like me - who expect a Great Pyrenees to be a LGD - were causing a BIG problem because not all these dogs are meant to be farm dogs and keeping them outside is cruel. . Uh... ok. These dogs have been bred for centuries to be LGDs... that is until everyone who likes fluffy white dogs decided to want them as a pet and the breeders started breeding for QUANTITY not quality. The pet demand is the real problem. And people making money off animals that are not raised to carry traits that have been developed over centuries of breeding. She also scolded me for not spaying the dog until the first heat cycle... which in giant breeds I have been advised by several vets to wait to insure better bone development and prevent early hip dysplasia. She made the point preventing of mammary cancer which Pyrs have low risk for cancer unless you shave them and expose the pink skin. I finally asked her how many Pyrs she'd owned... zero of course.

people s have a lot opinion ,they have a right to have one but we don t have to listen to them .
chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

a problem with a golden cuckoo ,the rich gold or copper get delutted by barring especially in DF barring bird .
dark cuckoo will have a better rich copper or gold because they carry just one copy of barring gene .
chooks man

 

[bigsurfwaves]

a problem with a golden cuckoo ,the rich gold or copper get delutted by barring especially in DF barring bird .
dark cuckoo will have a better rich copper or gold because they carry just one copy of barring gene .
chooks man

that is what you call mossy? yes? Mine looks mossy I think

 

[Chooks man]

that is what you call mossy? yes? Mine looks mossy I think

what we call mossy is a black plumage when is polutted by brown .
I have to find a photo in my album to show you .
chooks man

 

[bigsurfwaves]

I believe the very darkest egg genes are male sex linked so hens only inherit it from their father. There are so many genes that determine egg colour I don’t even think they are documented, so you will likely still get some nice green eggs, just not the darkest possible. You will likely get a nice variety of green shades from each hen. However, the roosters will inherit their mother’s Z chromosome carrying the darkest egg genes, as well as one copy of the blue shell gene. If you used an F1 rooster to your F1 hens then
second breeding, you will pass on these genes and 75% of hens will lay green eggs, less than half of these being as dark green as possible. Alternatively, if you bred an FI rooster to marans hens, half will lay green eggs but a lot of these will lay superbly dark green eggs. For this to work best you should use a rooster from the egg of your darkest laying marans hen.

If you need to figure anything out just remember these three factors:

The Blue egg Allele is dominant to the white egg allele, meaning as long as it has one copy it will lay blue eggs (or would if it was female). The pure cream legbar will only pass on this so all F1s will have this gene. These F1s have a 50% chance (or more if the other parent also has this allele) of giving it to their own chicks.

The darkest egg genes are on the Z chromosome, hens have only 1 which is inherited from the father, Roos have two which they get from both parents.

Most over egg tone genes can be passed down from either parent, the legbar has no egg tone genes as it produces a blue egg, so you’re relying on the marans to have strong genes. The more egg tone genes they have the darker the egg will be, but not all of them are guaranteed to show if they only get one copy, that’s why F2 birds are good as they have a chance of inheriting these from both parents rather than just the pure marans side.

Sorry I start typing meaning to give a brief answer but always dump loads of information on you!

Olivia laid her first egg! It's in the middle of the pic. She's a really pretty blue girl with copper neck - an F1 olive egger Black Copper Marans X Ameraucana

Interestingly - the darker speckled eggs were laid by a black Sex Link hen with lots of reddish copper on her neck. Every day without fail for a full year! I wonder if she was really a midnight majesty?

Unfortunately, my dog killed her and the blue layer too. I had a multicolor egg basket for about 3 weeks until dog devastation. As soon as I get my dog situation settled, I think I'm ready for a pair of black copper marans. Or maybe in spring I will get some DARK hatching eggs for a broody and let her raise some up. Would I be better to do that from a local breeder? I'm thinking yes. Instead of snagging a hatchery bird or two... ??

 

[bigsurfwaves]

what we call mossy is a black plumage when is polutted by brown .
I have to find a photo in my album to show you .
chooks man

Mossy???

 

[Chooks man]

View attachment 3636063

Mossy???

yes her shoulder and chest are mossy the black plumage is not pure , I will say she is over coloured ,she has too much gold .
look to me like she is from Duckwing e+ family genetic ( wild type ) not Birchen ER family
she has a lovely body type by the way .
chooks man