International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[Tstraub]

Lots of copper coming in. They're looking good.

Thanks, three of them are really getting a lot of color, Black Betty is keeping true to her name. I’m quite surprised by their size. They tower over the Easter Eggers and barred rock off the same age. The cockerels are already the size of my olive eggers that are 6 months old and the pullets are not far behind. The OEs are hatchery grade 1/2 cuckoo Marans I expected the black copper marans to be about the same size but it looks like they will be much bigger once they are fully grown.

 

[wrathsfarm]

Thanks, three of them are really getting a lot of color, Black Betty is keeping true to her name. I’m quite surprised by their size. They tower over the Easter Eggers and barred rock off the same age. The cockerels are already the size of my olive eggers that are 6 months old and the pullets are not far behind. The OEs are hatchery grade 1/2 cuckoo Marans I expected the black copper marans to be about the same size but it looks like they will be much bigger once they are fully grown.

Mine are opposite. The 3 olive eggers are bigger than the 3 Marans. I'm suspecting that the 3 olive eggers are boys.

 

[wrathsfarm]

Black Marans variety added to APA...

https://backyardpoultry.iamcountryside.com/poultry-101/new-poultry-varieties-enter-apa/

The Black Marans variety was added to join existing Marans chicken varieties, including Black Copper, White, and Wheaten. All varieties lay dark brown eggs.

As president of the Marans Chicken Club USA, Fernando del Aguila Jr. of Georgia led the application for recognition. He and other breeders worked with Black Marans developed by Bev Davis of Texas.

Black Maran. Photo by Fernando del Aguila Jr.
“It was a long but rewarding process,” del Aguila said. “Working with the APA was intense, as attention and adherence to the Standard are priority. However, they provided great input and guidance along the way.”

The Black Copper variety is the most popular, but del Aguila describes Black Marans as “more elegant,” for the green sheen on their black feathers. He recommends interested novice and intermediate breeders work with them.
“It allows more focus on type and feather integrity,” he said. “The Black Marans are an excellent bird to work with.”

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

My line sketches for my own drawings for good English Marans, inspired by some of the best chooks from this thread. I’ve tried to keep to the proper French type, the truest and oldest type while conforming to the English Standard.

Before I add more details or redraw a final picture I just want to check that I have something close to a ‘perfect’ type to become the ideal pictures to work with as a reference with my own birds.


Thanks

 

[Bantambird]

Exactly! This is funny: I was scolded by a person who founded a pet nonprofit just yesterday. She said that people like me - who expect a Great Pyrenees to be a LGD - were causing a BIG problem because not all these dogs are meant to be farm dogs and keeping them outside is cruel. . Uh... ok. These dogs have been bred for centuries to be LGDs... that is until everyone who likes fluffy white dogs decided to want them as a pet and the breeders started breeding for QUANTITY not quality. The pet demand is the real problem. And people making money off animals that are not raised to carry traits that have been developed over centuries of breeding. She also scolded me for not spaying the dog until the first heat cycle... which in giant breeds I have been advised by several vets to wait to insure better bone development and prevent early hip dysplasia. She made the point preventing of mammary cancer which Pyrs have low risk for cancer unless you shave them and expose the pink skin. I finally asked her how many Pyrs she'd owned... zero of course.

You are also right, we did not neuter our Zeus until he was well over a year old. Honestly, I have a lot of luck in that my mother is a country veterinarian, and she would not recommend anyone neuter or spay giant breeds of dog before a year. Sometimes, it gets hard to wait due to the maturity issues, but protecting your female and letting her get some age before fixing is a good call. Mom says if you can possibly wait until closer to 2, but since livestock guardians are very good at going wherever they think they should be, we worried that springtime heat cycles from the neighborhood lady dogs might cause a problem so we fixed him at about 16 months. The pet trade is becoming a real issue for people wanting functional livestock guardians, especially pyrs.
Zeus pulled a muscle when he was having a growth spurt around 8 months, and we had to kennel him for 3 weeks to be sure he got the rest for his shoulder to heal properly. Let me tell you, a kenneled livestock guardian in the house is the most bored, whiney, barky dog ever. He would go off at everything all night, and fuss about being kenneled all day. He was elated when his recovery was finished. We could not let him have a blanket or anything like that, he tore them up so fast he couldn't be allowed to have them. I gave him giant kongs and a big cow femur to chew on, but he was still pretty upset. The only leftover behavior he has from that is a desire to hang out in the garage, but whenever the neighbors shoot fireworks, we let him in there or just go into the barn where he curls up and buries his head to hide from fireworks.

 

[chickengr]

Yes I was thinking a rooster or broody hen might work to train a pup from an early age NOT to mess with birds

not sure about that. a goose bit my dog's father when he was a puppy and he never forgot that. I had to rehome him. I would train an adult dog only with an aggressive roo (not with broody just in case).

 

[chickengr]

Exactly! This is funny: I was scolded by a person who founded a pet nonprofit just yesterday. She said that people like me - who expect a Great Pyrenees to be a LGD - were causing a BIG problem because not all these dogs are meant to be farm dogs and keeping them outside is cruel. . Uh... ok. These dogs have been bred for centuries to be LGDs... that is until everyone who likes fluffy white dogs decided to want them as a pet and the breeders started breeding for QUANTITY not quality. The pet demand is the real problem. And people making money off animals that are not raised to carry traits that have been developed over centuries of breeding. She also scolded me for not spaying the dog until the first heat cycle... which in giant breeds I have been advised by several vets to wait to insure better bone development and prevent early hip dysplasia. She made the point preventing of mammary cancer which Pyrs have low risk for cancer unless you shave them and expose the pink skin. I finally asked her how many Pyrs she'd owned... zero of course.

I wish people would take that much care of children.

 

[Bantambird]

Yes I was thinking a rooster or broody hen might work to train a pup from an early age NOT to mess with birds

another thing, once they bond to you and you tell them who is family and who is not, they will start to pick up on that. They really take your words to heart. Livestock guardians are super empathetic. At least the ones I have met, so far. I am by no means a super duper expert, just relating through talking to lgd breeders that are shepherds, and following my mom as a kid helping on all the sheep farms. The local pyrs here are mostly still farm dogs, because all the old shepherd families still keep lines of pyrenees, kengal, akbash, and a few of the other more long ranging ones. Ranches in Montana tend to be pretty large because it is so dry ( and seasons are short), so close guarders aren't as common here.
To help with training for poultry, I hold the bird, and sternly tell the dog that the bird is mine, and to leave it. We practice for an age appropriate amount of time, then I turned him out with the goats since he was far less likely to accidentally hurt them. He could still see the poultry while with the goats. Nanny Morgan cured him of ever wanting to play with goats. She won't put up with any shenanigans, so she would butt him pretty firmly if she felt like he was getting too friendly. Soon they got to know each other, and she is no longer so aggressive, and he is old enough not to get too pushy. He also learned the birds are mine. He pretty much ignores them.

 

[bigsurfwaves]

yes her shoulder and chest are mossy the black plumage is not pure , I will say she is over coloured ,she has too much gold .
look to me like she is from Duckwing e+ family genetic ( wild type ) not Birchen ER family
she has a lovely body type by the way .
chooks man

YES! OK so my instincts- knowing nothing- were correct. I asked the hatchery about this variety specifically before ordering because I wanted the black and gold contrast NOT brown mossy. They have pictures of 2 completely different looking birds on their website of course. What I really wanted was a Cuckoo Marans with good contrast and feathered legs that laid a dark egg. But again - many showed clean legs and light eggs. Must find a breeder.

But for now - just to demonstrate sex linked chicks for my son's school genetics project in STEM class - what could I breed her to that might also improve the coloring? A black copper? Someone has offered me a rooster just yesterday from a line of dark dark layers.

 

[Chooks man]

YES! OK so my instincts- knowing nothing- were correct. I asked the hatchery about this variety specifically before ordering because I wanted the black and gold contrast NOT brown mossy. They have pictures of 2 completely different looking birds on their website of course. What I really wanted was a Cuckoo Marans with good contrast and feathered legs that laid a dark egg. But again - many showed clean legs and light eggs. Must find a breeder.

But for now - just to demonstrate sex linked chicks for my son's school genetics project in STEM class - what could I breed her to that might also improve the coloring? A black copper? Someone has offered me a rooster just yesterday from a line of dark dark layers.

yes a Black copper rooster from dark egg laying line will improve the golden cuckoo patern and add some ritchness to the gold plus will darken the eggs too .
chooks man