International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[KF0002]

I walked back out to the cockerels pens. This is so hard!!!! I saw two in the keeper pen that now look like culls and one in the cull pen that is the cockerel I posted last week with the light halo hackle I was going to keep. I have found that the hackle color does change and in my case always deepens to copper. Maybe I should wait another month except for Tony2. He is gone but you should see his color - gorgeous! Or I could just hatch out another bunch and only keep 1.

I would wait on any I thought might be good keepers. I feel like mine are 7-8 months old and are still changing. I have one cockerel in my cull pen that looks decent one time I go see him, the next time he's not good, then the next time he looks decent again. I may hang onto him another month or so just in case. Otherwise I know the others are culls and havent changed. It is frustrating, I know!

 

[KF0002]

So I happen chance to acquire what appears to me to be Black Copper Marans. However my lady doesn’t lay any dark eggs, which id like. Is there anyway I can breed these two and have a chance of having a new chick that will lay dark eggs?

If they are from related stock its possible egg color might improve if you breed the 2 together, but if you dont know what color egg the male hatched from he may not carry the genes for darker egg color either. If you want to try it and grow a few pullets out it wouldnt hurt. At least you would have layers even if their egg color is light. The genes for dark egg color can be complicated.

 

[Lyndseyft13]

If they are from related stock its possible egg color might improve if you breed the 2 together, but if you dont know what color egg the male hatched from he may not carry the genes for darker egg color either. If you want to try it and grow a few pullets out it wouldnt hurt. At least you would have layers even if their egg color is light. The genes for dark egg color can be complicated.

Thank you. I do they they may be from related stock as I did get them together.
And your right it doesn’t hurt to try, I was just wondering if it wa even possible.

 

[KF0002]

Thank you. I do they they may be from related stock as I did get them together.
And your right it doesn’t hurt to try, I was just wondering if it wa even possible.

It's possible if the cockerel's parents carried the dark egg genes and passed them to him. If the two are brother and sister they likely carry many of the same genes, so if they are brother and sister from the same line and her egg color is light, he may not carry the genes for dark egg color either.

However, if their mother and father were from unrelated stock (two unrelated bloodlines) that can cause egg color to be lighter in the first generation (your birds) because the genes for dark egg color have to be present on both sides of the parents. If you mate your two birds together, those genes will pair up and the egg color may be better in the offspring. That is a lot of if's and maybe's, but I hope you see improvement.

 

[KF0002]

Hello everyone, its been awhile since I've posted but i read everyday. I see the topic of the brown dots and i figured i share my recent experience. I bought a couple blue, black and splash copper marans 2 weeks back(p.s. this is my 4th bloodline I'm going to try, praying i atleast get some decent birds to work with because my other 3 lines were pure doo doo) well out of 17 chicks 10 were black and 7 of them had the "copper dot" on there heads, now 2 weeks later every single one is mossy, and every bcm chicks I've ever had with the dot turned out mossy. But i seem to have the worst luck with the marans and nearly gave up on them a couple times, but i figured i keep going. I love them. I was also wondering, do the blues and splashes ever have problems with mossiness? Or is it a black thing? Any help and or advice would be appreciated .

I have never seen a mossy blue copper or splash, but my experience with them is limited. I haven't raised enough of them to see it yet. I shared a similar history as yours with Marans though, as my past experience in trying to find good stock to start with was not good. I received eggs and chicks that turned out to be horrible.. yellow/willow legs, horrible mossiness, and black overmelanized birds. One batch of chicks never made it out of quarantine because they were carrying an illness resulting in the culling of the entire bunch, including the "canary" chickens I put in with them (canary quarantine method.. not actual canaries).

Stick with it and don't give up. If I didn't long so much for those coveted dark chocolate eggs, I would have given up on the breed a long time ago.

 

[KF0002]

I have scoured one of the Marans groups I am a member of for information on the brown head spots that occurs on some Black Copper chicks. There are theories that it results from recessive genes, another theory is that it is a sex linked trait that appears to occur mostly in cockerels, some people even speculate that it is an indicator that the line has been crossed with wheaten somewhere long down the line and is a "throwback" or atavistic return of those genes. Some people said their chicks grew out to be overcolored cockerels or mossy pullets, while others said their chicks grew out normal looking. The conclusion I came to is that not a whole lot is known or understood about why the brown spot occurs in some lines of Marans. We should follow these chicks as they occur and share our results as to how they turn out.

The brown head spot occurs in pure LP birds I have read so if that's the case then likely french breeders would have some information, as Brenda Little received her birds from Monique Berte in France. Since @RedBanks frequently visits the Marans Aspiran website, maybe she could ask and see if anyone could shed some light on this for us.

 

[Red Banks]

This last batch of chicks (the ones I am currently sharing with you) had a lot of brown on them. None of them are mossy although the cockerels have over colored breasts.

 

[KF0002]

This last batch of chicks (the ones I am currently sharing with you) had a lot of brown on them. None of them are mossy although the cockerels have over colored breasts.View attachment 1344035 View attachment 1344036 View attachment 1344039

Those chicks would be considered mossy. Mossiness is simply excess color, whether the mossy chicks yield mossy females or overcolored males when they mature. One or more of your very well colored hens likely produced those chicks I bet. It happens easily when a well colored male is mated to a well colored female. Like with Apollo and Zanitta, the chicks they produced are mossy because Apollo had plenty of color and Zanitta is the most colored hen I have. I broke the pair up once I saw the mossy chicks. But when I mated Apollo to Sheraz, who is not as well colored, they didnt produce mossy chicks.

As newborn chicks the mossy offspring from Apollo and Zanitta looked normal, albeit they did have more white on their faces than I like. The didn't have any brown on their down at all and it was only after they started feathering that I noticed the mossiness.

Two perfectly colored Marans specimens bred together wont produce perfectly colored male and female offspring. This is why a lot of show breeders maintain separate female and male lines. A pair that throws beautifully well colored females will likely throw overcolored males. A pair that throws appropriately colored males will likely produce darker not as well colored females.

 

[OneMountainAcres]

I will go out and try to get a picture of my Marans cockerel that had the spot as a baby. I marked him with a zip tie as a baby and kept changing it as he grew. This was his baby picture.

 

[Red Banks]

Those chicks would be considered mossy. Mossiness is simply excess color, whether the mossy chicks yield mossy females or overcolored males when they mature. One or more of your very well colored hens likely produced those chicks I bet. It happens easily when a well colored male is mated to a well colored female. Like with Apollo and Zanitta, the chicks they produced are mossy because Apollo had plenty of color and Zanitta is the most colored hen I have. I broke the pair up once I saw the mossy chicks. But when I mated Apollo to Sheraz, who is not as well colored, they didnt produce mossy chicks.

As newborn chicks the mossy offspring from Apollo and Zanitta looked normal, albeit they did have more white on their faces than I like. The didn't have any brown on their down at all and it was only after they started feathering that I noticed the mossiness.

Two perfectly colored Marans specimens bred together wont produce perfectly colored male and female offspring. This is why a lot of show breeders maintain separate female and male lines. A pair that throws beautifully well colored females will likely throw overcolored males. A pair that throws appropriately colored males will likely produce darker not as well colored females.

None of the pullets are mismarked. The mossiness on these chicks disappeared. I have no white on this hatch and Tony2 had no white. I am going to leave the show world alone. I want to raise good Marans though.....so all good to know.