International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[Chooks man]

Okay..... but that doesn't stop me from "wanting" LP! LOL

I know LP line is pure who doesn t what a pure BCM ?
Guess LP line is like a sport car we must have t.

we will organize some eggs for you when time comes , be patient .

chooks man

 

[kfelton0002]

Just wanted to check in with yall. I havent had a chance to read all the pages of posts Ive missed.

@Chooks man I have been talking some more with the breeder of my oldest group (father with black shoulder). He explained to me that in an attempt to improve his egg color which was around 4-6 in his black coppers and 7-8 in his blacks, he crossed his Bev Davis Black Marans with his 1/2 Bev Davis 1/2 Little Peddler Black Copper Marans. So that gave him 1/2 black 1/2 black copper. He then bred them back to the black copper and those are the birds I currently have. So my group is 3/4 Black Copper 1/4 black marans. That is why he advised me to breed them back to the other group of black coppers I have until the black shoulder issue is bred out. I am looking forward to my new Marans project in the spring.

 

[kfelton0002]

Okay..... but that doesn't stop me from "wanting" LP!  LOL  

The only reason I want a pure line of LP Marans would be to keep them pure. They are only desirable in my opinion because they are "pure french" which just means no American line has been infused into the bloodline. Debbie Little got her original trio from France and started breeding them and selling them in the US. Originating from a single trio means the line has a limited gene pool which leads you to her disclaimers page of lots of flaws that crop up like vulture hocks, mossiness, rumpless birds, etc. And to keep them "pure LP" or "pure french marans" you are unable to infuse blood from other lines to strengthen line bloodline. Thats not saying you wont end up with some beautiful birds from the LP line but u may have to hatch a lot of birds so u can cull through them and be selective of your breeding stock, which goes with any line. That doesnt make them undesirable as long as you line breed your pure LP's to avoid inbreeding too closely and exchanging birds with fellow breeders to freshen up your LP line. After 5 years of the same line being bred by two different breeders, the lines are no longer close enough to be considered "related." Thats where having a strong network of fellow breeders is important. We can work together to keep our LP lines pure when we get our pure LP's.

 

[Chooks man]

Just wanted to check in with yall. I havent had a chance to read all the pages of posts Ive missed.

@Chooks man I have been talking some more with the breeder of my oldest group (father with black shoulder). He explained to me that in an attempt to improve his egg color which was around 4-6 in his black coppers and 7-8 in his blacks, he crossed his Bev Davis Black Marans with his 1/2 Bev Davis 1/2 Little Peddler Black Copper Marans. So that gave him 1/2 black 1/2 black copper. He then bred them back to the black copper and those are the birds I currently have. So my group is 3/4 Black Copper 1/4 black marans. That is why he advised me to breed them back to the other group of black coppers I have until the black shoulder issue is bred out. I am looking forward to my new Marans project in the spring.

I knew some thing was not alright there .
thank you for the explanation ,so now we know what are dealing with .

tel your breeder to test his black to see if they pure black or over malenized Black copper.

If we cross the Dominant white ( Leghorn ) rooster to a pure black hen we should have all pure white .
if the cross to a leghorn rooster to a n over malenized blabl cooper hen than the progeny will be White copper Because the dominant white has no affect on the Gold and Silver.

I m not sure of a pure black maran strain . maybe you gays have the genes in the USA .

the British they have a Black one .where they got from no body know. that why they created a uniform silver cuckoo . they bred the hackel out.

chooks man

 

[kfelton0002]

I knew some thing was not alright there .
thank you for the explanation ,so now we know what are dealing with .

tel your breeder to test his black to see if they pure black or over malenized  Black copper.

If we cross the Dominant white ( Leghorn ) rooster to a pure black hen  we should have all pure white .
if the cross to a leghorn rooster to a n over malenized blabl cooper hen  than the progeny will be White copper Because the dominant white has no affect on the Gold and Silver.

I m not sure of a pure black maran strain . maybe you gays have the genes in the USA .

the British they have a Black one .where they got from no body know. that why they created a uniform silver cuckoo . they bred the hackel out.

chooks man

His blacks are Bev Davis's Black line.

Genetic code: E/E S/S Ml/Ml Id/Id w+/w+ Pti1-L/Pti1-L

She bred her blacks using a Cuckoo female bred to a Black Copper male to get solid black female offspring. What Im assuming she did after that was then breed the solid black female offspring to black copper and then select the darkest rooster to put back with the solid black females, and so on until she bred out the copper.

 

[Chooks man]

His blacks are Bev Davis's Black line.

Genetic code: E/E S/S Ml/Ml Id/Id w+/w+ Pti1-L/Pti1-L

She bred her blacks using a Cuckoo female bred to a Black Copper male to get solid black female offspring. What Im assuming she did after that was then breed the solid black female offspring to black copper and then select the darkest rooster to put back with the solid black females, and so on until she bred out the copper.

I saw Bev Davis s Black chooks . they are well bred .she did a good job.they are pure black . they have a low sheen ,great sign of the purity of the black no over melanized black . I ll love to have her chooks one day.

I m working on the black line. it is one of the hardest to breed true over 10/15 years if you started with a copper variety ,because of the gold and the Autossomal Red
. with a Birchen and a Silver cuckoo as parent stock plus a black rooster from the import UK is going to be easier to breed them true in a short time 5/7 years because both are Silver chooks and a Black marans is a silver based chooks not a golden based chooks.

chooks man

 

[bluejean55girl]

Ok, we can make progress on breeding out a sprig. How bad is it if I have two hens with split wings and 3 roos without spilt wings as my beginning base to start my flock with?

Or do I just need to bite the bullet and get more chicks in order to get some females that don't show the split wings?

 

[kfelton0002]

I saw Bev Davis s Black chooks . they are well bred .she did a good job.they are pure black . they have a low sheen ,great sign of the purity of the black no over melanized  black . I ll love to have her chooks one day.

I m working on the black line. it is one of the hardest to breed true over 10/15 years  if you started with a copper variety ,because of the gold and the Autossomal Red
. with a Birchen and a Silver cuckoo as parent stock plus a black rooster from the import UK is going to be easier to breed them true in a short time 5/7 years because both are Silver chooks and a Black marans is a silver based chooks not a golden based chooks.

chooks man

Yes they are very well bred birds. And their egg color is wonderful. If I had the pen space I would own some myself. Lol.

When pairing/grouping my Marans what would u recommend? Here are my thoughts:

My 3/4 BCM 1/4 Black Marans cockerel (the best one that has great type) mated to the Greenfire Farm/LP pullet from my youngest group to further breed out the black marans.

Then in another pen, mate my best GFF/LP rooster to the pullets in my oldest group (Bev Davis/LP). I am fairly certain the breeder told me the eggs the pullets hatched from came from the pure Black Copper Marans pen, which consists of a Bev Davis BCM cock and Little Peddler hens.

I can then mate the offspring from the two pens together (cockerel from one pen over pullets from the other pen, and vice versa.)

 

[kfelton0002]

This may be helpful to some of the Marans novices (like myself) be able to spot vulture hock at an earlier age. This pic is of my cockerel with vulture hock when he was about a 3.5 weeks old. He is going to be culled soon but I will get better close up pictures of his vulture hocks beforehand to share with u all.

You can see how the feathers on his legs above the shank arent the normal fluffier feathers that should be there, but instead are stiffer and point backwards.

Vulture hocks is a recessive trait that crops up from time to time in Marans. Any Marans with vulture hock should be culled and not used for breeding.

This cockerel has some Little Peddler in his lineage and vulture hocks has been known to occasioanally crop up in LP's.

Everyone have a great day!

 

[kfelton0002]

Ok, we can make progress on breeding out a sprig. How bad is it if I have two hens with split wings and 3 roos without spilt wings as my beginning base to start my flock with?

Or do I just need to bite the bullet and get more chicks in order to get some females that don't show the split wings?

Here is an article I have bookmarked. It says birds with split wing should not be used for breeding as it is a recessive gene and will be passed to the offspring. @Chooks man may have some advice on split wing.

https://poultrykeeper.com/poultry-breeding/recessive-genes-faults/