International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[Red Banks]

History of the Marans lines in the USA – Part One

Fugate Line

Letter from Fugate to Trish:

Dear Trish,

I will indeed help set the record in order. I have been retired exactly one week today and will begin to collect my memory and my records.

My first Marans came from Isaac Hunter of Dowagiac, Michigan. I acquired the birds in 1960?? I went to Isaac's farm and bought two pair; two
cockerels and a hen and a pullet. I also bought a couple dozen eggs. It was the fall and the adult stock went into a second moult and didn't breed until
the spring. The pullet laid a darker egg than the hen but I hatched from both. The eggs were very large (I have weights in my records stored in TN).
Occasionally I would get a spectacularly large dark egg; of these, about half had double yolks! And Marans eggs tended to have blood spots!

Of the 26 eggs I brought from Michigan; I got 14 chicks. They performed rather like their Parents...

This particular strain tended to have respiratory problems and splayed legs. They layed well and I disagree with the often heard remark that the
Marans do not lay well! They certainly do not lay as many eggs as most other breeds but they lay MORE eggs than almost any breed! They are very
good winter layers, super foragers and the quality of their flesh is of world renown.

I introduced new blood into this flock in 1962. I brought eggs from England in an egg carton packed in my baggage. I hatched 7 chicks (4 males, 3
females). I kept these birds separate from the Hunter strain for two years. I called this second strain my British strain. They were not as large, not as
docile, egg quality (darker) was better, they did not lay as well as the Hunter strain. The next year I returned to Europe for an extended period and my
poultry man ran all the Marans together. During this period, the flock (70-odd birds) ran together and fended for themselves; actually hatched their
chicks in the wild and raised their own and very successfully.

When I returned, I trap nested (for egg quality - color and size) and rotated male birds. The result is probably what you are now calling the Fugate
strain. I brought Cuvee Noire (black copper) from France in 1982. I brought 36 eggs from three different flocks near Marans. More later and if you
have any questions voice me.


Letter from Fugate to Cari Shafer:

I have put together some notes and collected my memory so follows my involvement with the Marans.

I first encountered the Marans in France in 1952. I visited a colleague in La Rochelle, France and on a visit to the local market saw my first Marans
eggs. The eggs were a reddish brown almost mahogany. The eggs sold for a premium at that time.

When I returned to the United states some years later (1960ish), Isaac Hunter of Dowagiac, Michigan had an ad in the Poultry Press. I contacted
Isaac and visited his farm and bought a cock, a hen, and a pair of younger birds. Isaac gave me an additional cockerel. I penned the two females and
rotated the male birds every 15 days. Both females layed nice dark eggs and in March I began to hatch. The first season I hatched and raised 30-odd
chicks to maturity. I kept 10 of the best pullets and the two original hens from the Isaac Hunter flock, a cock from the Hunter flock (the first old cock bird
died and I am not sure if I ever got progeny from him?) I selected several male birds and rotated them with the hens/pullets. I kept this flock for several
years but brought new blood in form England In 1972.

The English birds came from a Mrs. Bosworth from near Bath. I went to her farm and collected the eggs (2 dozen) and kept them in a hotel room in
London for a week. I did turn the eggs every day. When I got the eggs home to Tennessee they were already 11 days old. I did manage to hatch two
males and one female from the 24 eggs. The Bosworth Marans were so like the Hunter strain that I suspect they came from the same lines originally.

I interbred the two strains and what you have now that you are calling the Fugate strain is a blend of Hunter and Bosworth birds.

I note in current literature that you now have lighter/darker males! My males were as alike as two peas in a pod. Coocoo; not light or dark coocoo! Did
I miss these differences? Or did they not exist in the strains I raised?

I also found the chicks 100% auto sexing right out of the shell. Occasionally I would encounter down on the legs but the down never developed into
feathered shanks.

Generally speaking my flocks were a paragon of health and hardiness. They did have a tendency to respiratory ills and had splayed legs. I never did
show Marans because beauty is as beauty does! I did take exhibits to poultry shows and sold hatching eggs but kept the eggs in a cage so people
couldn't handle them....

I never fed commercial feed to mature birds. My basic ration was 1/3 corn, 1/3 wheat and 1/3 oats. Unground in full grain. And alfalfa pellets during
the winter months. I laced the water with soluable vitamins, I did not use oyster shell but a pigeon grit. Probably an old wives tale but I suspect that
oyster shell lightens the egg shell?

At one time I had 1000 birds on hand but we had a chicken and egg business and were selling several dressed birds a week. We sold the chickens
and the eggs for twice the local market value and couldn't fill all orders.

The Health Department made signs of looking at our operation and we moved to Kosher slaughter. (And also cleaned up our act somewhat).

My Copper Black Marans came from France in the egg and I also got eggs from Dennis LaBelle of Consecon, ON Canada. The eggs from the
French birds were rather like the eggs from the Hunter/Bosworth birds but the French birds grew off more slowly, and both strains were the same from
pot to pan.

The lighter coocoos dressed off more easily. The French birds were more docile, real pets. But the Coocoo birds were not flighty....

Hope these observations will be helpful.

So this is Mr. Fugate first talking about his Cuckoos and then BCM. At least that is what it reads to me. Very interesting!

 

[Braxton Brigade]

So this is Mr. Fugate first talking about his Cuckoos and then BCM. At least that is what it reads to me. Very interesting!

Yes, I forgot to mention he is mainly talking about the start of his breeding program which was only cuckoos at the start.

He does speak of bcm in the letter, just not as much.

Reading about the start of the breed in the US was also interesting to me.

I thought someone could extract some useful information from it.

 

[chickengr]

a friend of mine imported bcm from romania. he put males and females together and that's it. 2 years ago some of females didn't have bent comb. today all of them have. I can see what @Chooks man means when he is talking about selective breeding.

 

[Chooks man]

a friend of mine imported bcm from romania. he put males and females together and that's it. 2 years ago some of females didn't have bent comb. today all of them have. I can see what @Chooks man means when he is talking about selective breeding.

Hi Chickengr.

I have been saying there is a difference in selective breeding method and multiplying chooks .

Totally two different things.

Most of the peoples think if they ll buy a faultless chooks ,than they don t have to worry .they can just breed them and get a faultless chooks .THAT is not true .will never work for more than a couples of years and they will run into troubles .

chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

I note in current literature that you now have lighter/darker males! My males were as alike as two peas in a pod. Coocoo; not light or dark coocoo! Did
I miss these differences? Or did they not exist in the strains I raised?

Chooks man
His cuckoo where pure siver cuckoo doubles barred . they all look a like .
he didn t know or see a dark cuckoo .because they do not exist as pure strain . The English breeders breed them by matting a Black chooks to a silver cuckoo all the off spring are
single barred . ( dark cuckoo ) and latter they accepted it as variety in they standard ( don t make any sense )
1st they bred the feathered shanks out
2end they added a black chooks to a pure Marans . where a black chooks come from .no one no .was not a Black French marans for sur . BUT what was it.

I don t regard a dark cuckoo marans as a pure strain .

chooks man

 

[Red Banks]

I note in current literature that you now have lighter/darker males! My males were as alike as two peas in a pod. Coocoo; not light or dark coocoo! Did
I miss these differences? Or did they not exist in the strains I raised?

Chooks man
His cuckoo where pure siver cuckoo doubles barred . they all look a like .
he didn t know or see a dark cuckoo .because they do not exist as pure strain . The English breeders breed them by matting a Black chooks to a silver cuckoo all the off spring are
single barred . ( dark cuckoo ) and latter they accepted it as variety in they standard ( don t make any sense )
1st they bred the feathered shanks out
2end they added a black chooks to a pure Marans . where a black chooks come from .no one no .was not a Black French marans for sur . BUT what was it.

I don t regard a dark cuckoo marans as a pure strain .

chooks man

The English bred the black Cuckoos, but are they still correct in France?

 

[Chooks man]

The English bred the black Cuckoos, but are they still correct in France?

No the Dark cuckoo are not accepted by the French Standard .

the French they can not make they mind too . they are saying the reason for them no to accept the dark cuckoo because it is not a pure variety ( does not breed true ) but they accepted the blue copper and now they are applying for the Blue birchen . Both this variety do no breed true .

Plus they rejected completely the splash ,witch is a pure variety.

So I don t know where is the comment sense in all this.

I do follow the French standard but I disagree with them when come to varieties, .they are struggling to keep the varieties they have a live . Monique is screaming at them to focus on the chooks NOT the politic .but they like politic .

Chooks man

 

[Red Banks]

Quote:
Politics complicate everything! LOL So how should the Cuckoo look, like your Avatar, feathered legs, male and female the same color? I was on a thread not too long ago and someone was looking for Fugate CM.

 

[baunlee]

hey everyone thanks for the invite to the thread. I just started raising pure bcm's that I received at a chickenstock event from a BYC user, years ago now, who no longer raises them but username marsiquella. Anyways I raised those for awhile until my flock was attacked by dogs. One of my hens and her 2 offspring survived. I might/most likely will be getting rid of these 3. I picked up a dozen eggs in another state which are show quality but the hatch rate was low. I have those guys as chicks right now and ready to set another dozen show quality eggs soon. Though I myself do not show bcms. here's a pic of the rooster that survived but i'm not keeping. he did get badly bit around his neck area I think (I was not living here when it happened so I'm not super specific on what his injuries were at the time). poor guy.

 

[Chooks man]

Politics complicate everything! LOL So how should the Cuckoo look, like your Avatar, feathered legs, male and female the same color? I was on a thread not too long ago and someone was looking for Fugate CM.

Yeah let them deal with a politic , that only think they know,

LET talk genetic ; How should the cuckoo look ?

The French standard accept both a silver cuckoo and the Golden cuckoo . both are from the 2 end family genetic ER ( hackle family = BC. BLC . SPC. BIR. BLBIR. SC. GC )
they should have a cuckoo patterned feathers ( organic not truly barred like the Barred rock ) random Zig Zag .

Because the cuckoo B gene and a Silver genes both are Sexlinked . So the rooster should have 2 copies BB , SS. and the hen should have 1 copies .B- . S- .
So the rooster should be lighter colored double bared and double silver . giving him the silvery /gray look. especially his hackle and saddle they should be more lighter then the rest of his body .

the hen should be darker than the rooster because just one barring but she need a lighter hackle not a uniform barring pattern through out her body.

chooks man