International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[Chooks man]

Quote:
you have nothing to worry about your Blue copper cockerel .he is actually nice . well chunky and have a nice, body type fit the rectangle desired by the standard . my lap top is giving me a hard time . i ll come back to him later Chooks man

 

[kcrandall]

I went out and took photos today. I don't know how you guys have so many good pictures of your chickens. Believe it or not, these are the best pictures I could get out of many attempts. Remember these guys are 19 weeks old. Please notate any obvious faults and possible good things. All I have at the moment are a Blue Copper Cockerel and a Black Copper Pullet. They would be the two I would be breeding together starting out. To me, my cockerel has a flat chest. It looks strange to me. If I had to describe it, I would say his chest looks 'droopy'. But I don't know much. Okay here goes! Cockerel Tail Spread, kind of windy so picture might be useless Pullet to the left

Bullets, Unless I am colored blind (as ChooksMan said in an earlier post, LOL) your Blue CM Cockerel looks like a BCM to me. It appears the lower part of his body is a washed out black. He still has a lot of growing to do and will change quite a bit over the next few month. OK, here is my crictique: The Good 1. Good shaped head 2. Strong beak, good color 3. Nice eye color - eyes should turn a nice orange red color. Eye color comes from the Cock. 4. Nice strong neck 5. Nice copper hackles so far - looks like he may develop a flame on the lower part of his hackles (goldish or yellowish color) but I could wrong (hopefully I am). 6. Nice long back tilting slightly from front to back - this is what we want. 7. Back feathers - showing a little copper but would to see more at his age. 8. Wings - held high and close to the body - this is what we want to see. I'm seeing some good red feathering on his shoulders. 9. Good tail angle - we want a 45 degree angle or slightly less 10. Nice full breast - I'm not seeing the flat breast in the pictures you took. Breast is all black - would prefer some copper flecking which is an indicator the Cock will produce pullets with the proper copper color on the hackles. 11. Good leg feathering - not over feathered which is good. 12. Nice slate gray shanks and feet - I think I can see a slight pinkish undertone which is what we want. 13. Good body mass for his age - he'll continue to fill out as he matures. The Bad 1. Comb shape is average at best - No big deal since the comb comes from the hen. 2. Ear tufts are black or dark gray. We're looking for copper colored ear tufts which is an indicator the Cock will add copper hackles to his female progeny. With dark ear tufts he may produce pullets that are mostly black. 3. Saddle feathers - not as much copper as I would like to see at his age. 4. Overall body color - I like the copper color that he is showing but he appears a little on the dark side to me. It could just be the lighting in the pictures though. As for the pullet, she appears to have nice copper hackles the full length of her neck which is what we want. We need more pics of the pullet to give you a better critique. I think you can work with these birds. Question, why do you think your Cockerel is a Blue CM? If he is a Blue CM then he is very dark for that variety. Good luck with your Chooks. Keith

 

[kcrandall]

Here's the Pullet. To me she looks good. I think she has good shape. Don't really see much wrong with her. That's one of the reasons I'm posting, to have you help me determine what I'm looking at This pic makes her tail look really high, she's actually wagging her tail and I caught the pic as it swung to her left side Pullet on the left Cockerel in the middle

Bullets, Your pullet is very, very nice. She has very good type and mass, nice comb / wattles, nice orange eyes, gorgeous copper hackles and good leg feathering. Nothing bad I can say about this girl. She is your prize - take good care of her and she give you some good chicks. Keith

 

[Chooks man]

https://www.backyardchickens.com/content/type/61/id/7661917/width/350/height/197/flags/LL he is a Blue copper very dark but for sure 1005 is a blue copper marans. the Blue is the worst color a person can work with .unstable .even if you breed from the best colored blue rooster and hen you will still all sort of blue . if you breed him to that Black copper pullet you will very nice progeny to chose from ,blue copper and black copper .

chooks man

 

[bullets]

https://www.backyardchickens.com/content/type/61/id/7661917/width/350/height/197/flags/LL he is a Blue copper very dark but for sure 1005 is a blue copper marans. the Blue is the worst color a person can work with .unstable .even if you breed from the best colored blue rooster and hen you will still all sort of blue . if you breed him to that Black copper pullet you will very nice progeny to chose from ,blue copper and black copper .

chooks man

Here is a pic of him at a week or two old and one of the pullet for reference. Yes he is very dark blue. His brother was a lot lighter. He is no longer with us.





This is the cockerel that I don't have anymore. Lighter blue.

This is the pullet in the picture

 

[Chooks man]

Here is a pic of him at a week or two old and one of the pullet for reference. Yes he is very dark blue. His brother was a lot lighter. He is no longer with us.





This is the cockerel that I don't have anymore. Lighter blue.

This is the pullet in the picture

yeah I can see the difference .
i m working with a Blues .so i know it is a wide spectrum off color tonne .

bu the way the pullet is a true black copper . very rare .dark hatch down with a minimum of white . not PENGUINY type .

she is a true ER/ER . and she is a prove that a dark chicks they are not going to end all black like most peoples believe ,

I keep telling them they should be like yours more black than white and they keep saying not they have to be more PENGUINY type .they don t have a clue about the marans breed ,they are just trying they best .that all .

thank you for posting this price less photos.

chooks man

 

[bullets]

Quote:

Bullets,

Unless I am colored blind (as ChooksMan said in an earlier post, LOL) your Blue CM Cockerel looks like a BCM to me. It appears the lower part of his body is a washed out black. He still has a lot of growing to do and will change quite a bit over the next few month. OK, here is my crictique:

The Good
1. Good shaped head
2. Strong beak, good color
3. Nice eye color - eyes should turn a nice orange red color. Eye color comes from the Cock.
4. Nice strong neck
5. Nice copper hackles so far - looks like he may develop a flame on the lower part of his hackles (goldish or yellowish color) but I could wrong (hopefully I am).
6. Nice long back tilting slightly from front to back - this is what we want.
7. Back feathers - showing a little copper but would to see more at his age.
8. Wings - held high and close to the body - this is what we want to see. I'm seeing some good red feathering on his shoulders.
9. Good tail angle - we want a 45 degree angle or slightly less
10. Nice full breast - I'm not seeing the flat breast in the pictures you took. Breast is all black - would prefer some copper flecking which is an indicator the Cock will produce pullets with the proper copper color on the hackles.
11. Good leg feathering - not over feathered which is good.
12. Nice slate gray shanks and feet - I think I can see a slight pinkish undertone which is what we want.
13. Good body mass for his age - he'll continue to fill out as he matures.

The Bad
1. Comb shape is average at best - No big deal since the comb comes from the hen.
2. Ear tufts are black or dark gray. We're looking for copper colored ear tufts which is an indicator the Cock will add copper hackles to his female progeny. With dark ear tufts he may produce pullets that are mostly black.
3. Saddle feathers - not as much copper as I would like to see at his age.
4. Overall body color - I like the copper color that he is showing but he appears a little on the dark side to me. It could just be the lighting in the pictures though.

As for the pullet, she appears to have nice copper hackles the full length of her neck which is what we want. We need more pics of the pullet to give you a better critique. I think you can work with these birds. Question, why do you think your Cockerel is a Blue CM? If he is a Blue CM then he is very dark for that variety.

Good luck with your Chooks.

Keith

Thank you for the reply on my Cockerel you guys!

I can see what you're talking about when you mention a potential flame around the hackles developing. At the very ends it does look as if he might already be developing it. We'll see what he ends up like in a few months. Hopefully it will only be slight. I was a little worried about his leg feathering. I'm glad to know he doesn't have too much, at least at this point in time. I know his coloring overall is lacking. He was late to develop any copper color. It's nice to know his only main faults right now are his comb and coloring. I was thinking about abandoning ship on trying my hand at breeding Marans. But if I have a decent cockerel I would hate to let him go to waste. I think I will give it a go. @Chooks man if you have anything different to add when your laptop stops acting up, I'm open to all opinions. @kcrandall I really appreciate all that you notated. I am learning and this group is wonderful!

As far as the breeding BlueCopper Marans to a BCM I think I will do a couple of hatches and just see what I get. I am hesitant though as I would not want to have bad BCM out of them due to blue genes.

 

[Chooks man]

TRUE BLACK COPPER MARANS HATCH DOWN

NOT THIS OVERMELENIZED THING MOST PEOPLE TALK ABOUT.

look at the color of her toes ,nice and pink ,the shank nice a slate . NOT ALL BLACK .

I love this pullet .
you have to name her because she is going to be a future reference of how the black copper marans chicks should look like . and how they look when mature .

BRAVO to the breeder of this fine specimen . if it is you ,than Bravo to you .

chooks man

 

[kcrandall]

yeah I can see the difference .
i m working with a Blues .so i know it is a wide spectrum off color tonne .

bu the way the pullet is a true black copper . very rare .dark hatch down with a minimum of white . not PENGUINY type .

she is a true ER/ER . and she is a prove that a dark chicks they are not going to end all black like most peoples believe ,

I keep telling them they should be like yours more black than white and they keep saying not they have to be more PENGUINY type .they don t have a clue about the marans breed ,they are just trying they best .that all .

thank you for posting this price less photos.

chooks man

Huh, I didn't know I was color blind! LOL!! I can now see the difference in the chick down.

Keith

 

[kcrandall]

Thank you for the reply on my Cockerel you guys! 

I can see what you're talking about when you mention a potential flame around the hackles developing. At the very ends it does look as if he might already be developing it. We'll see what he ends up like in a few months. Hopefully it will only be slight. I was a little worried about his leg feathering. I'm glad to know he doesn't have too much, at least at this point in time. I know his coloring overall is lacking. He was late to develop any copper color. It's nice to know his only main faults right now are his comb and coloring. I was thinking about abandoning ship on trying my hand at breeding Marans. But if I have a decent cockerel I would hate to let him go to waste. I think I will give it a go. @Chooks man
 if you have anything different to add when your laptop stops acting up, I'm open to all opinions. @kcrandall
 I really appreciate all that you notated. I am learning and this group is wonderful!

As far as the breeding BlueCopper Marans to a BCM I think I will do a couple of hatches and just see what I get. I am hesitant though as I would not want to have bad BCM out of them due to blue genes.

Bullets,

I have learned that we can work with most faults - some take a couple of generations to correct and others take much longer. I remember @ChooksMan saying early on in this forum that there are four main faults that are a nightmare to work with so we should try to avoid them:

1) Black eyes = recessive black, bad Melanin
2) Black comb, face, wattles = recessive black, bad melanin
3. Rooster with dark feet, no sign of pink = too much melanin
4) Rooster with a black shoulder = absence of mahogany

@ChooksMan, if I misquoted you please correct me. So, as breeders, we have to be honest with ourselves in evaluating our birds. Once we do that then we can pair our males and females in such a way as to bring out the good traits and minimize the bad. What I like about this thread is that we truly want to help each other to bring out the best in our birds. You have an excellent start with your pullet and you can work with your cockerel. I agree with @ChooksMan, she needs a name.

Keith