International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[Fanci Feathers Marans]

What are the genetics behind a marans with black saddle and shoulder? Does it breed out?

 

[craychixlay]

Thoughts on this guy? He's got one white feather and little light colored feathering on his down. My other choices are

This guy or

This guy. He's got some tail missing from #2 plucking. They are 6 months old and I need to decide which one to keep soon before my neighbors complain and this guy is tailless . Thanks so much for any input. I appreciate it! I'm new to breeding. I've always just been a buyer.

 

[kcrandall]

View attachment 1123280 View attachment 1123281Thoughts on this guy? He's got one white feather and little light colored feathering on his down. My other choices are View attachment 1123285
This guy orView attachment 1123287
This guy. He's got some tail missing from #2 plucking. They are 6 months old and I need to decide which one to keep soon before my neighbors complain and this guy is tailless . Thanks so much for any input. I appreciate it! I'm new to breeding. I've always just been a buyer.

Craychixlay,

The Rooster #1 is the most correct of the three. He has good type, size, nice copper hackles / saddle / ear tufts, good tail shape / size / set, good feathered shanks, nice slate gray shanks with a little pink showing, good strong head with well curved and colored beak, and nice copper eyes.

Here is what I do not like about the first Rooster: 1) comb - not horrible but not great - the blade is split, should be solid, 2) wattles - too large, they sag, 3) shoulder (upper wing) needs to have more red (autosomal red), 4) white tipped butt feathers (double check to make it's not dried poo on the feathers) - if feathers are white then he carries the parisitic white which can be a nightmare to breed out. If you breed him to a well colored hen with nice full copper hackles that also has a nice comb and no white feathers anywhere then you should get some good chicks to work with.

Rooster #2 - He is way too dark - lacks the autosomal red - that where it begins and ends for me, he would be a cull in my breeding program. I can breed from an all black BCM Hen but not a Rooster - the Roosters color is his most important trait.

Rooster #3 - His body type is triangular not rectangular, he's smaller in size, he has dark ear tufts and his tail is too high / long (squirrel tail). I like his copper hackles / saddles but he could have more red on his shoulder. His comb is not great either. He's not as complete as #1 IMO. If he has zero white on him you could breed him to a hen with excellent type / size, well colored with full copper hackles, nice orange eyes and nice straight comb.

It would be helpful to know what your hens look like so we can match their strengths against the Roosters weaknesses and vice-a-versa.

Take Care,
Keith

 

[Fanci Feathers Marans]

Craychixlay,

The Rooster #1 is the most correct of the three. He has good type, size, nice copper hackles / saddle / ear tufts, good tail shape / size / set, good feathered shanks, nice slate gray shanks with a little pink showing, good strong head with well curved and colored beak, and nice copper eyes.

Here is what I do not like about the first Rooster: 1) comb - not horrible but not great - the blade is split, should be solid, 2) wattles - too large, they sag, 3) shoulder (upper wing) needs to have more red (autosomal red), 4) white tipped butt feathers (double check to make it's not dried poo on the feathers) - if feathers are white then he carries the parisitic white which can be a nightmare to breed out. If you breed him to a well colored hen with nice full copper hackles that also has a nice comb and no white feathers anywhere then you should get some good chicks to work with.

Rooster #2 - He is way too dark - lacks the autosomal red - that where it begins and ends for me, he would be a cull in my breeding program.

Rooster #3 - His body type is triangular not rectangular, he's smaller in size, he has dark ear tufts and his tail is too high / long (squirrel tail). I like his copper hackles / saddles but he could have more red on his shoulder. His comb is not great either. He's not as complete as #1 IMO. If he has zero white on him you could breed him to a hen with excellent type / size, well colored with full copper hackles, nice orange eyes and nice straight comb.

It would be helpful to know hat your hens look like so we can match their strengths against the Roosters weaknesses and vice-a-versa.

Take Care,
Keith

Do you see a wry tail in #1? Don said he did.

 

[kcrandall]

What are the genetics behind a marans with black saddle and shoulder? Does it breed out?

FanciFeathers,

I assume you are talking about a BCM Rooster that is all or mostly black? If so, then this type of Rooster would produce dark progeny (little to no color).

Chooks Man will better explain the genetics behind the black. I would think that a very experienced breeder with knowledge of poultry genetics could use a dark BCM Rooster to correct the parasitic white gene. It would take many generations to breed out the white then add back the copper color. As a novice breeder I would never attempt this myself.

Take Care,
Keith

 

[craychixlay]

Craychixlay,

The Rooster #1 is the most correct of the three. He has good type, size, nice copper hackles / saddle / ear tufts, good tail shape / size / set, good feathered shanks, nice slate gray shanks with a little pink showing, good strong head with well curved and colored beak, and nice copper eyes.

Here is what I do not like about the first Rooster: 1) comb - not horrible but not great - the blade is split, should be solid, 2) wattles - too large, they sag, 3) shoulder (upper wing) needs to have more red (autosomal red), 4) white tipped butt feathers (double check to make it's not dried poo on the feathers) - if feathers are white then he carries the parisitic white which can be a nightmare to breed out. If you breed him to a well colored hen with nice full copper hackles that also has a nice comb and no white feathers anywhere then you should get some good chicks to work with.

Rooster #2 - He is way too dark - lacks the autosomal red - that where it begins and ends for me, he would be a cull in my breeding program. I can breed from an all black BCM Hen but not a Rooster - the Roosters color is his most important trait.

Rooster #3 - His body type is triangular not rectangular, he's smaller in size, he has dark ear tufts and his tail is too high / long (squirrel tail). I like his copper hackles / saddles but he could have more red on his shoulder. His comb is not great either. He's not as complete as #1 IMO. If he has zero white on him you could breed him to a hen with excellent type / size, well colored with full copper hackles, nice orange eyes and nice straight comb.

It would be helpful to know what your hens look like so we can match their strengths against the Roosters weaknesses and vice-a-versa.

Take Care,
Keith

Thank you so much for the wealth of knowledge! Unfortunately, #1does indeed have a weird white tipped grey rooted feather is attached to it's bum. I tried to pull it earlier and the bum feathers are lightly dusted white tips. So funny. If you guys would have chimed in any later, he would have been off to his new home and I would have been mad. So definitely get rid of the dark one? I really think the tail on #3 would look better if they were all there.

 

[craychixlay]

Here is some of my girls. I have 9 total. 3 are from mypetchicken.com and they are tiny and very little copper. The rest are from the same local breeder as my boys. There are a couple with nice combs. Just not in this pic. Their coloring is great though!

 

[kcrandall]

Do you see a wry tail in #1? Don said he did.

I don't see a

Do you see a wry tail in #1? Don said he did.

I didn't see a wry tail for Rooster#1 in either of the pics. if he does have a wry tail then it is very slight.

Take Care,
Keith

 

[kcrandall]

Thank you so much for the wealth of knowledge! Unfortunately, #1does indeed have a weird white tipped grey rooted feather is attached to it's bum. I tried to pull it earlier and the bum feathers are lightly dusted white tips. So funny. If you guys would have chimed in any later, he would have been off to his new home and I would have been mad. So definitely get rid of the dark one? I really think the tail on #3 would look better if they were all there.

Even if fully feathered #3 looks like he will have a long high tail (greater than 45 degree angle). What we want is a short, full tail at a 35 to 45 degree angle. If he is breed to a hen with a short low tail then that would offset his long high tail.

I would wait for Chooks Man to weigh in before you make a decision on #1 or #3. #2 (dark) is still a cull for me. If #2 came from a dark egg then he could be used to breed Olive Eggers.

Take Care,
Keith

 

[chickengr]

View attachment 1123280 View attachment 1123281Thoughts on this guy? He's got one white feather and little light colored feathering on his down. My other choices are View attachment 1123285
This guy orView attachment 1123287
This guy. He's got some tail missing from #2 plucking. They are 6 months old and I need to decide which one to keep soon before my neighbors complain and this guy is tailless . Thanks so much for any input. I appreciate it! I'm new to breeding. I've always just been a buyer.

the white feathers at 6 months old usually molt out. I like #1. if you can keep for now #1 and #3 you can decide later which one to keep.

some chickens sometimes keep their tails little tilted and they look like wry tails. only you can know for sure if it is wry or not. if it is tilted all the time than it is wry. but slightly. my chickens are scared of camera and I have never taken any decent pic of them.

@Chooks man will tell you. I still am a learner.