International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[BlueTheBrahma]

If I were to pick up fresh blood, I'm probably going to get Cuckoo myself, especially if I can find silver cuckoo. There would be a much easier time refining them with my birchen based flock, plus no cross concerns.

I imagine your birchen line would make for some lovely silver cuckoos. How common are non hatchery quality cuckoos in America?

 

[Chooks man]

I think I may have been confusing by talking about both projects in the same message.

I have:
1 x silver cuckoo cock
1 x silver cuckoo hen
dark cuckoo hens
black copper hens
1 x blue copper hen (Chanel)

My main project is the Golden cuckoo project. Crossing the silver cuckoo cock to the BCM hens will get the F1s. I know they wouldn’t be perfect straight away, especially the hens as they will be silver. But using the resulting S/s+, B/b+ cockerel over the silver cuckoo hens should throw some double barred, S/s+ cockerels, and breeding him to black coppers should get some pure gold, single barred cockerels. And half of the hens will be golden cuckoos.

If I used the dark cuckoos, it would be experimental and I know it would take a few generations to breed out the E allele.

My other idea was a project, to get more dark cuckoos, breeding the silver cock to the dark hens, then test mate future progeny to breed out any birchen alleles, so they are E/E.


Feel free to point out problems I’ve missed, I struggled to follow which one you meant here, but I think that’s my fault.
Thanks!

OK thank you removed the confusion away
Your dark cuckoo project idea is correct . That is the way it should be done.
Golden cuckoo project idea is correct too .there is many different way to go about it . The best way is to mate F1 to F1 to make true F2 in this generation you will have a pure s+/s+ , B/B cocktails and s+/_ , B/_ pullets . From this point on you can split the f2 into 2 lines .cockerels line double barred Golden cuckoo cockerel mate him to a BCM hen to reinforce a copper so doesn't t get washed out very quickly and become yellow. All the progeny will Golden cuckoo single barred . Keep the dark eggs laying pullets with a good golden hackle marking from this cross. Now go back to the first F2 golden cuckoo pullets and mate them to a BCM rooster to produce a golden single barred male you will use to cross to the pullets from the other line to produce pure golden cuckoos with better rich golden hackle.

I know this is too much for because of you situation in not be able to have many cockerels that the down side of it
Use you method but wash out for the inbreeding depression because of the small gene pool.
Hope that helps
Blessing and good luck.
Chooks man.

 

[Chooks man]

If I were to pick up fresh blood, I'm probably going to get Cuckoo myself, especially if I can find silver cuckoo. There would be a much easier time refining them with my birchen based flock, plus no cross concerns.

Agree with you 100% my friend silver cuckoos and Birchen work very well . Will add a lighter silver hackles to the girls too.
Chooks man

 

[Bantambird]

I imagine your birchen line would make for some lovely silver cuckoos. How common are non hatchery quality cuckoos in America?

That will be the very hard part, unfortunately. Cuckoo Marans here are closer to barred rocks than actual Marans. When I get the ability, I'll probably be looking long and hard before investing.

 

[Chooks man]

That will be the very hard part, unfortunately. Cuckoo Marans here are closer to barred rocks than actual Marans. When I get the ability, I'll probably be looking long and hard before investing.

very said what peoples have done to the cuckoo Marans ,a well stablished old breed ,they messed around with it , I have been telling the cuckoo marans breeders in the USA that a cuckoo marans should not have a well define barring and should not be uniform ,they said to me many time it is a USA standard what the BS . I told them Marans are French and there is only one SOP far I m concern , they start saying it here in Australia too , to hide they luck of knowledge and understanding of the true and original SOP .that what it is .they don t want to do they home work so they change thing and say that how we like it here , full of them selves .
good luck to you to find some good to work with .
chooks man

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

OK thank you removed the confusion away
Your dark cuckoo project idea is correct . That is the way it should be done.
Golden cuckoo project idea is correct too .there is many different way to go about it . The best way is to mate F1 to F1 to make true F2 in this generation you will have a pure s+/s+ , B/B cocktails and s+/_ , B/_ pullets . From this point on you can split the f2 into 2 lines .cockerels line double barred Golden cuckoo cockerel mate him to a BCM hen to reinforce a copper so doesn't t get washed out very quickly and become yellow. All the progeny will Golden cuckoo single barred . Keep the dark eggs laying pullets with a good golden hackle marking from this cross. Now go back to the first F2 golden cuckoo pullets and mate them to a BCM rooster to produce a golden single barred male you will use to cross to the pullets from the other line to produce pure golden cuckoos with better rich golden hackle.

I know this is too much for because of you situation in not be able to have many cockerels that the down side of it
Use you method but wash out for the inbreeding depression because of the small gene pool.
Hope that helps
Blessing and good luck.
Chooks man.

Thank you, and sorry for the confusion!
I’m glad you mentioned the reinforcing to a BCM cock because I wouldn’t have thought about this.
Even if I wait until it’s more practical, I’ll definitely keep it in mind.
Do you think, if I did get to this stage, getting a new unrelated BCM would be better?

Or using a related BCM that is produced when I breed the F1 silver cuckoo cross copper back to coppers?

It’s a real shame I lost Napoléon, otherwise he’d have been a great way to keep strong copper in the line.

 

[Chooks man]

Thank you, and sorry for the confusion!
I’m glad you mentioned the reinforcing to a BCM cock because I wouldn’t have thought about this.
Even if I wait until it’s more practical, I’ll definitely keep it in mind.
Do you think, if I did get to this stage, getting a new unrelated BCM would be better?

Or using a related BCM that is produced when I breed the F1 silver cuckoo cross copper back to coppers?

It’s a real shame I lost Napoléon, otherwise he’d have been a great way to keep strong copper in the line.

the bonus in working with a BCM to reinforce the copper quality in the golden cuckoo line is you can inject it with new blood line to boost the genetic pool to avoid inbreeding depression . it is very risky to recreate a new strain from just few birds limited genes pool .
I have seen some breeders recreate a GCM but they colour was so diluted almost yellow . we want to keep it golden /red because the barring gene will always try to dilute it . always make sure to reinforce a copper in the new GCM line before you go soo deep into breeding
good luck with a project .
I culled all my split GCM/SCM rooster only kept the hens because they are GCM ,I will mate them to a BCM rooster to mate a GCM cockerels , when I do that ( first back cross ) I will mate them to BCM hens ( second back cross ) to mate pure GCM girls and boys than I will mate them together because they will be from different lines to avoid inbreeding depression . never forget that inbreeding depression can spoil your hard work ,
chooks man

 

[TexasBlues]

Now that the days are getting longer I’m starting to get more eggs. The one in the middle has a nice round shape and is dark and glossy.

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

My attempt at sorting the eggs out by who’s laid them. May not be accurate, especially with the paler ones.

I watched Claudie lay this egg, so I know her egg now. This was heavy bloom, here are some from the days before:

So her’s isn’t the glossier one from before. Maybe that one is Joan’s, but I’d need to keep an eye out be be sure.

 

[Chooks man]

Now that the days are getting longer I’m starting to get more eggs. The one in the middle has a nice round shape and is dark and glossy.
View attachment 4282160

they are gorgeous , love the sheen and colour ,
chooks man