Is change linked with trust?

[happy duck]

Thanks for all the help!!! My male duck will let me pick him up and and will sit in my lap, but when I go to give them treats....they just run. I guess I will just conclude to work it slow. Thanks!!

 

[lomine]

Ducklings go through a phase (I can't remember at what age) where they are afraid of everything, even a person they once trusted. You just have to keep calm around them and try not to look like a giant predator coming to eat them. But seriously, they will usually calm down again.

I've got a pair of Cayuga that were brooded with chicks and even at almost a year old still act like I'm going to eat them. I've got my trio of WH (the oldest) that never run from me and will eagerly eat form my hand if I offer. I can pick them up and pet them. They are calm but they don't really like it. My newest group is a dozen Saxony and WH ducklings that are 10 weeks old. They have already learned that morning time is mealworm treat time for the flock and will come running toward me to get their share. Some of them will also eat from my hand if I offer them mealworms.

I think mealworms have been the key for me. I didn't try hand feeding the Cayuga when they were young because they were with about 20 chicks, I think that's why they don't trust me like the others do.

 

[Knighstar679]

all this is very good to know. I don't have my ducklings yet (18 days to go I hope) but this will be good information for when they come so I get the little darlings off to the right start.

 

[jmoschner]

I'm slowly working on an Article on the whole ducks hating their owners thing as it seems to come up quite a lot. It is kind of complicated, but the biggest factors are the breed of duck, the individual duck's personality, and how you interact with the duck.

Below is a brief take on why they probably hate you and what you can do about it. Please ignore typos and such as this is taken from a disorganized work in progress.

First and foremost, there is no one right way to raise a duck. What works with one duck might not work with another. This is based on my own experiences in working with wild ducks and raising domestic ducks as well as lots of research from sources outside the backyard duck and homestead communities. I do not claim to know all the answers. Hopefully some of this will help.

Before we begin, one helpful tip is do not anthropomorphize your ducks. Waterfowl have their own unique physiology and psychology. You have to think about how they perceive and interpret your actions.

Most people don't look at from the duck's point of view and end up doing things that annoy and/or frighten the fowl. Good natured ducks will tolerate a lot and ducks that have bonded with you will tolerate even more, but all creatures have their breaking points.

It helps to understand duck biology and duck behavior both in captivity and in the wild. Ducks tend to rely on sound, smell, and touch when establishing relationships. They tend to rely on sight and sound for detecting danger.

Sound:
From as early on as possible you should talk to your ducks. They need to know your voice. They will eventually learn some words and that your voice is a good thing. It took about 12 hours of talking to our girls (we received them on June 25th 2018) while they were in the brooder to get them comfortable with me and following me around.

Often people leave their ducklings alone in a brooder for a large part of the day and/or overnight and have minimal interaction with the birds. Even talking to the birds helps establish a bond. Ducklings will imprint based on sound before they will sight. Usually it is sound and smell that drives their imprinting.

Avoid being loud or making sudden loud or strange noises. Note we're talking sounds that are strange to ducks not to people. People tend to be quite loud and annoying and are blissfully unaware of how loud they are. Sudden/strange sounds can startle your duck. If someone went around scaring you all the time, you might not like them very much.

Ducks can get used to just about any sound if it fits a routine and is shown not to pose a threat to them. That said, they may find your particular voice annoying. In that case, you may have to use another method of communication such as tapping your thigh, clicking, making sounds instead of talking, or even using a duck call app.

Smell:
Humans are stinky creatures each with a fairly unique odor. Ducks strongly identify individuals by smell. Try to have a consistent odor that is pleasing to your ducks (mine will happily bury their face in my unwashed armpit). This may mean your perfume, detergent, deodorant, shampoo, etc. could be off putting to your duck.

Ducks love consistency, this means you should smell the same (or near the same) every day. One Foie Gras facility found it was not the actual worker that the ducks grew accustomed to; rather their sight and smell. They found that when they had two different workers wear the same set of clothes, the ducks would respond to the second worker as if they were still the first.

Sight:
Wearing similar clothing/colors each day helps a duck recognize you as you. This isn't something you have to do, but if the duck seems to hate you, it can help. This is another layer of consistency and ducks do like consistency. Not many animals change color every day as drastically as a human changing clothes.

Avoid clothing that may seem like it has "eyes" or that may make you appear as a predator.

Movement around the duck should be smooth and easy. Quick jerky movement can startle a duck. Even throwing out feed or pouring water can startle them. Because of the structure of their eyes, they are very sensitive to motion.

When possible, approach the duck so that you do not appear looming over them. Make noise as you approach so they know you are coming. Try to approach the duck "head on" so they now you are not trying to sneak up on them (mallards have nearly 360 degree vision).

Introduce new items carefully and choose items like bowls or toys that do not have "eyes" or that may otherwise be alarming to the ducks. Because they can see into the UV spectrum, items that may seem innocuous to people may freak ducks out.

Most of the time it is people moving too fast and too sporadically that causes trepidation in ducks. While people laugh at how ungraceful ducks can be; ducks recoil in terror when these uncoordinated massive lumbering primates flail in their direction.

Note that ducklings don't have the best eyesight as their auditory system develops before their ocular system.

Touch:
Duck communicate a lot through touch. Nuzzling, poking, prodding, preening, biting, huddling, etc. all have their place within the flock. Nuzzling and preening builds trust between young ducks and can help build trust between you and your ducks.

Be gentle but firm when you handle a duck. Use good form to avoid injuring a duck when you pick it up. Most ducks do not like to be picked up. They either must learn being picked up leads to something good or you should limit the amount of picking up you do.

Breed:
Some breeds are more skittish than others or react differently depending on flock size and environment. This doesn't mean a skittish breed like a Khaki Campbell can't be loving cuddle monsters, but it does make it harder.


Duck Personality:
Every duck is unique. While it is easy to think of them like people or puppies, they are ducks and are very ducky. Even when raised one on one and they think and act more like a person, they are still a duck.

Like cats or dogs, ducks can have a wide variety of personalities and personal tastes. It is important to understand your duck's individual personality and tailor your behavior around that personality.

Some ducks are just not that friendly or only like one or two people. One of the wild ducks where we used to live loved me, but would openly attack other people.


Behavior:
Ducks (at lest those of Mallard blood) tend to have strong flocking instincts. If they see another duck doing something they will assume it is safe or at least not very dangerous. That is why decoys often work in hunting. We can use this to our advantage. Get just one duck to like you and the others are more likely to slowly warm up to you.

Some ducks are very territorial and will see you as trespassing on their turf, even if you raised them. Others may see you as a mating rival or may seek to establish dominance over you as top of the pecking order. In these cases, the solution is less about your duck liking you and more about your duck needing to respect you. You must make sure you have established you are at the top of the pecking order.

Ducks are quick to forget, but take a long time to forgive. Remember that time you didn't give your duck that pea from your plate 3 years ago? No? The duck does and will hold it against you until it can figure out how to cut the brake line in your car.

Every time you wrong/betray a duck you have to earn back their trust a bit. What a duck considers betrayal can very from duck to duck. Usually it is something like being left alone, being grabbed, or being scared/startled. Earning back that trust usually just involves giving them a little space, then slowly laying next to them and gently nuzzling them. Treats may also help if nuzzles don't. Many ducks are happy to trade tummy rubs for treats.

It often helps if you squat down when interacting with a duck that dislikes you. Don't drop your head down, like in an act of aggression, or stand up and spread out like you are trying to be threatening.

Avoid touching their chest until a bond has formed. Ducks bite the chest when fighting and they may see your hand going toward their chest as an act of aggression. When in doubt don't try to touch a duck that doesn't like you until you have some bond going or it is needed (such as to treat a wound or take string out of their mouth).

Understand the duck-cycle and where your duck is in that cycle. Ducks may behave differently in each phase of the cycle. The "duck-cycle" is: sleep, post sleep preening, forage/eat, pre sleep preening, and repeat. Some ducks are grumpier just before sleeping or when just waking up.

Once you have bonded with your ducks, every time you betray them it hurts that bond until a routine has been established. This may mean you'll have to earn back their trust and build a little good will after each time you betray them.

Look for signs that you being around is causing them stress, such as the feathers on the back of their neck standing up when you near, them hissing at you, or their pulling out feathers. The health and well-being of the duck is what's important and trumps your need for cuddles or affirmation by your feathered not-a-friend.

It is also important to look for signs of stress in your duck in case they are lashing out at you, but there is actually another cause of their stress.

A note on brooders and pet ducks - most people are adopting techniques used to raise livestock to raising pets. This doesn't always work as the extra effort to build a strong bond is not needed for producing eggs and meat. This is often seen in brooder design and temp recommendations that are designed to scale for a large number of birds and be effective year after year for creating a product.

When it comes to treats each duck likes something different. You may have to experiment to find what your duck likes. The right treat can get a duck, even one that doesn't like you, to do almost anything.

Sometimes a duck just simply will not like a person. Sometimes you just don't click. It happens. In that case you just have to give each other space and establish mutual respect.

Worst case, in very rare circumstances, you may need to rehome the animal(s). However in most cases modifying the human's behavior will help resolve the situation.

 

[sourland]

Birds of all species hate change and are slow to adjust to that. Also ducklings in their 'teen aged' phase tend to become more skittish. Once adjusted to their new pen and more mature you can win their trust back with treats and calm, gentle behavior.

 

[Lrosell31]

I only have one duck that lets me hold her and think it’s because she’s blind. My 11 year old son has to chase after my ducks to catch them once he does they eventually settle down but not for long. They want to be let down soon after catching. My geese and turkeys are another story. The geese will get a little stand of fish but once my son holds them they give kisses and out there head in my sons neck. As for my turkeys the females love to sit on our lap and talk to us. I actually have one turkey that will sit on my husbands lap and watch him play video games or chill out with my pitbull. Oh and that turkey also gets jealous if I give attention to any of my other birds.

 

[lomine]

I'm slowly working on an Article on the whole ducks hating their owners thing as it seems to come up quite a lot. It is kind of complicated, but the biggest factors are the breed of duck, the individual duck's personality, and how you interact with the duck.

Below is a brief take on why they probably hate you and what you can do about it. Please ignore typos and such as this is taken from a disorganized work in progress.

First and foremost, there is no one right way to raise a duck. What works with one duck might not work with another. This is based on my own experiences in working with wild ducks and raising domestic ducks as well as lots of research from sources outside the backyard duck and homestead communities. I do not claim to know all the answers. Hopefully some of this will help.

Before we begin, one helpful tip is do not anthropomorphize your ducks. Waterfowl have their own unique physiology and psychology. You have to think about how they perceive and interpret your actions.

Most people don't look at from the duck's point of view and end up doing things that annoy and/or frighten the fowl. Good natured ducks will tolerate a lot and ducks that have bonded with you will tolerate even more, but all creatures have their breaking points.

It helps to understand duck biology and duck behavior both in captivity and in the wild. Ducks tend to rely on sound, smell, and touch when establishing relationships. They tend to rely on sight and sound for detecting danger.

Sound:
From as early on as possible you should talk to your ducks. They need to know your voice. They will eventually learn some words and that your voice is a good thing. It took about 12 hours of talking to our girls (we received them on June 25th 2018) while they were in the brooder to get them comfortable with me and following me around.

Often people leave their ducklings alone in a brooder for a large part of the day and/or overnight and have minimal interaction with the birds. Even talking to the birds helps establish a bond. Ducklings will imprint based on sound before they will sight. Usually it is sound and smell that drives their imprinting.

Avoid being loud or making sudden loud or strange noises. Note we're talking sounds that are strange to ducks not to people. People tend to be quite loud and annoying and are blissfully unaware of how loud they are. Sudden/strange sounds can startle your duck. If someone went around scaring you all the time, you might not like them very much.

Ducks can get used to just about any sound if it fits a routine and is shown not to pose a threat to them. That said, they may find your particular voice annoying. In that case, you may have to use another method of communication such as tapping your thigh, clicking, making sounds instead of talking, or even using a duck call app.

Smell:
Humans are stinky creatures each with a fairly unique odor. Ducks strongly identify individuals by smell. Try to have a consistent odor that is pleasing to your ducks (mine will happily bury their face in my unwashed armpit). This may mean your perfume, detergent, deodorant, shampoo, etc. could be off putting to your duck.

Ducks love consistency, this means you should smell the same (or near the same) every day. One Foie Gras facility found it was not the actual worker that the ducks grew accustomed to; rather their sight and smell. They found that when they had two different workers wear the same set of clothes, the ducks would respond to the second worker as if they were still the first.

Sight:
Wearing similar clothing/colors each day helps a duck recognize you as you. This isn't something you have to do, but if the duck seems to hate you, it can help. This is another layer of consistency and ducks do like consistency. Not many animals change color every day as drastically as a human changing clothes.

Avoid clothing that may seem like it has "eyes" or that may make you appear as a predator.

Movement around the duck should be smooth and easy. Quick jerky movement can startle a duck. Even throwing out feed or pouring water can startle them. Because of the structure of their eyes, they are very sensitive to motion.

When possible, approach the duck so that you do not appear looming over them. Make noise as you approach so they know you are coming. Try to approach the duck "head on" so they now you are not trying to sneak up on them (mallards have nearly 360 degree vision).

Introduce new items carefully and choose items like bowls or toys that do not have "eyes" or that may otherwise be alarming to the ducks. Because they can see into the UV spectrum, items that may seem innocuous to people may freak ducks out.

Most of the time it is people moving too fast and too sporadically that causes trepidation in ducks. While people laugh at how ungraceful ducks can be; ducks recoil in terror when these uncoordinated massive lumbering primates flail in their direction.

Note that ducklings don't have the best eyesight as their auditory system develops before their ocular system.

Touch:
Duck communicate a lot through touch. Nuzzling, poking, prodding, preening, biting, huddling, etc. all have their place within the flock. Nuzzling and preening builds trust between young ducks and can help build trust between you and your ducks.

Be gentle but firm when you handle a duck. Use good form to avoid injuring a duck when you pick it up. Most ducks do not like to be picked up. They either must learn being picked up leads to something good or you should limit the amount of picking up you do.

Breed:
Some breeds are more skittish than others or react differently depending on flock size and environment. This doesn't mean a skittish breed like a Khaki Campbell can't be loving cuddle monsters, but it does make it harder.


Duck Personality:
Every duck is unique. While it is easy to think of them like people or puppies, they are ducks and are very ducky. Even when raised one on one and they think and act more like a person, they are still a duck.

Like cats or dogs, ducks can have a wide variety of personalities and personal tastes. It is important to understand your duck's individual personality and tailor your behavior around that personality.

Some ducks are just not that friendly or only like one or two people. One of the wild ducks where we used to live loved me, but would openly attack other people.


Behavior:
Ducks (at lest those of Mallard blood) tend to have strong flocking instincts. If they see another duck doing something they will assume it is safe or at least not very dangerous. That is why decoys often work in hunting. We can use this to our advantage. Get just one duck to like you and the others are more likely to slowly warm up to you.

Some ducks are very territorial and will see you as trespassing on their turf, even if you raised them. Others may see you as a mating rival or may seek to establish dominance over you as top of the pecking order. In these cases, the solution is less about your duck liking you and more about your duck needing to respect you. You must make sure you have established you are at the top of the pecking order.

Ducks are quick to forget, but take a long time to forgive. Remember that time you didn't give your duck that pea from your plate 3 years ago? No? The duck does and will hold it against you until it can figure out how to cut the brake line in your car.

Every time you wrong/betray a duck you have to earn back their trust a bit. What a duck considers betrayal can very from duck to duck. Usually it is something like being left alone, being grabbed, or being scared/startled. Earning back that trust usually just involves giving them a little space, then slowly laying next to them and gently nuzzling them. Treats may also help if nuzzles don't. Many ducks are happy to trade tummy rubs for treats.

It often helps if you squat down when interacting with a duck that dislikes you. Don't drop your head down, like in an act of aggression, or stand up and spread out like you are trying to be threatening.

Avoid touching their chest until a bond has formed. Ducks bite the chest when fighting and they may see your hand going toward their chest as an act of aggression. When in doubt don't try to touch a duck that doesn't like you until you have some bond going or it is needed (such as to treat a wound or take string out of their mouth).

Understand the duck-cycle and where your duck is in that cycle. Ducks may behave differently in each phase of the cycle. The "duck-cycle" is: sleep, post sleep preening, forage/eat, pre sleep preening, and repeat. Some ducks are grumpier just before sleeping or when just waking up.

Once you have bonded with your ducks, every time you betray them it hurts that bond until a routine has been established. This may mean you'll have to earn back their trust and build a little good will after each time you betray them.

Look for signs that you being around is causing them stress, such as the feathers on the back of their neck standing up when you near, them hissing at you, or their pulling out feathers. The health and well-being of the duck is what's important and trumps your need for cuddles or affirmation by your feathered not-a-friend.

It is also important to look for signs of stress in your duck in case they are lashing out at you, but there is actually another cause of their stress.

A note on brooders and pet ducks - most people are adopting techniques used to raise livestock to raising pets. This doesn't always work as the extra effort to build a strong bond is not needed for producing eggs and meat. This is often seen in brooder design and temp recommendations that are designed to scale for a large number of birds and be effective year after year for creating a product.

When it comes to treats each duck likes something different. You may have to experiment to find what your duck likes. The right treat can get a duck, even one that doesn't like you, to do almost anything.

Sometimes a duck just simply will not like a person. Sometimes you just don't click. It happens. In that case you just have to give each other space and establish mutual respect.

Worst case, in very rare circumstances, you may need to rehome the animal(s). However in most cases modifying the human's behavior will help resolve the situation.

I should like to see what evidence you have for ducks not liking/being annoyed by a particular person's voice. I've never heard such a thing and would like to know more.

 

[jmoschner]

I should like to see what evidence you have for ducks not liking/being annoyed by a particular person's voice. I've never heard such a thing and would like to know more.

Observation of the ducks where we last lived. There was this one wild mallard lady who hated hearing one of the neighbors talking. Whenever the woman talked the hen would hiss at her or quack loudly. If the neighbor was quiet, the duck would be quiet. It was nice because it kept the annoying neighbor from talking loudly on her cell phone outside.