Is E. coli opportunistic in chickens?

[alinas2010]

Do chickens carry E. coli without it causing an issue? Is it an opportunistic microbe in chickens? Does it live in their gut?

I ask because I have a sick hen. I think she is an internal layer as she rarely lays and I thought maybe it was finally catching up with her and she had a reproductive infection. But the other possibility is that she has an infection because a soft egg broke inside of her about a week ago now. The white and yolk were under the roost and I pulled the soft shell out and thought that was that and cleaned her up and moved on. But she’s been off and clearly sick getting worse over a few days. She has been having these yellow diarrhea poops for a few days now and tonight I cleaned up her behind and it smelled incredibly like…what I remember an E. coli infection smelling like when I worked in a lab. I will never forget that smell. That’s what this smelled like. So but that leads me to ask how would she get E. coli if she had it? Would that be what’s making her sick or is that normal in chicken poop? Why do none of my other chickens poop smell like that? Would a broken egg cause an E. coli infection?

ETA: She is on amoxicillin (day 2 today) and I think she may have shown subtle signs of improvement tonight.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Well, E. Coli can be found in feces.

At the Vent - the large intestine and vagina "meet".
For me, it's hard to explain, but when an egg is laid, the vagina basically turns (inverts?) so that tissue is closing/covering the opening of the large intestine. Does that even make sense - same with pooping, there's like a tissue closing/separating.

Anyway...if an egg or material drops into the abdomen through Reverse Peristalsis (moves back up the oviduct), there's a good possibility that E. Coli might travel with it - depending.

Another possibility is muscles are not retaining tissue exactly as tightly as it should be or in place and some fecal matter is entering the vagina, this could cause infection.

If egg material (yolk especially) has broken and entered the reproductive system, that's a perfect medium for bacterial growth.

Lots of ways in 25-27 inches of reproductive tract to get an infection.

Hopefully the Amoxicillin will help.

 

[alinas2010]

Well, E. Coli can be found in feces.

At the Vent - the large intestine and vagina "meet".
For me, it's hard to explain, but when an egg is laid, the vagina basically turns (inverts?) so that tissue is closing/covering the opening of the large intestine. Does that even make sense - same with pooping, there's like a tissue closing/separating.

Anyway...if an egg or material drops into the abdomen through Reverse Peristalsis (moves back up the oviduct), there's a good possibility that E. Coli might travel with it - depending.

Another possibility is muscles are not retaining tissue exactly as tightly as it should be or in place and some fecal matter is entering the vagina, this could cause infection.

If egg material (yolk especially) has broken and entered the reproductive system, that's a perfect medium for bacterial growth.

Lots of ways in 25-27 inches of reproductive tract to get an infection.

Hopefully the Amoxicillin will help.


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Thank you for this. I know that wasn’t a very clear question. Your explanation was great, and overall what I was reaching for in so many words.

Is amoxicillin a good choice for E. coli? She may have other things going on, I figured amoxicillin offered broad coverage, but I also have tylan 50, LA-200, aquazole, cefpodoxime. I know with a possible reproductive infection my best hope is to make her comfortable.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Thank you for this. I know that wasn’t a very clear question. Your explanation was great, and overall what I was reaching for in so many words.

Is amoxicillin a good choice for E. coli? She may have other things going on, I figured amoxicillin offered broad coverage, but I also have tylan 50, LA-200, aquazole, cefpodoxime. I know with a possible reproductive infection my best hope is to make her comfortable.

I would go with Amoxicillin.

Dose is 57mg per pound of weight given orally twice a day for 7-10 days.

Sometimes an antibiotic can make them more comfortable for a good while, sometimes not, all you can do is try. I had a hen that I suspected had EYP or Cancer. I did give her Amoxicillin, she bounced back for about 8 months and then suddenly declined, so I decided not to try anything else and just put her down. She was a sweet hen, but I wanted to know more, so looked inside - Ovarian Cancer.
All you can do is try and see how it goes, never easy.

 

[alinas2010]

I would go with Amoxicillin.

Dose is 57mg per pound of weight given orally twice a day for 7-10 days.

Sometimes an antibiotic can make them more comfortable for a good while, sometimes not, all you can do is try. I had a hen that I suspected had EYP or Cancer. I did give her Amoxicillin, she bounced back for about 8 months and then suddenly declined, so I decided not to try anything else and just put her down. She was a sweet hen, but I wanted to know more, so looked inside - Ovarian Cancer.
All you can do is try and see how it goes, never easy.

Sorry to hear you had a hen go through something similar, it is hard to watch. They just aren’t around long enough. They’d probably outsmart us if they were.

Today is day 3 on amoxicillin, she is greatly improved. Droppings are still a tich yucky, but becoming more normal looking. Behavior is much more chicken-ish. I will be thankful for her to have more time here even if it is short lived, as she is only 2.

I did see in someone else’s post where you recommended that dosage for amoxicillin, but unfortunately all I have is aquamox in 500mg capsules, so I’ve been giving one of those a day. It may not be quite an accurate dose, but I wasn’t sure if it’s okay to break those open and sprinkle half on food or something. And at first there was not chance she was eating food anyways.

Thanks for the advice, I’ll keep at it as long as she keeps improving.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Sorry to hear you had a hen go through something similar, it is hard to watch. They just aren’t around long enough. They’d probably outsmart us if they were.

Today is day 3 on amoxicillin, she is greatly improved. Droppings are still a tich yucky, but becoming more normal looking. Behavior is much more chicken-ish. I will be thankful for her to have more time here even if it is short lived, as she is only 2.

I did see in someone else’s post where you recommended that dosage for amoxicillin, but unfortunately all I have is aquamox in 500mg capsules, so I’ve been giving one of those a day. It may not be quite an accurate dose, but I wasn’t sure if it’s okay to break those open and sprinkle half on food or something. And at first there was not chance she was eating food anyways.

Thanks for the advice, I’ll keep at it as long as she keeps improving.

I'm glad she's improving!

Giving once daily is probably fine to do, especially if you are seeing improvement - so I would just go with it.


**In the future, if you ever find you need to give a smaller dose, with the Aquamox, then yes, the capsules can be emptied. (Or pretty much any capsule that has powder).

What I do is empty the capsule out and mix it with a "known" amount of something like coconut oil (some use cream cheese or liverwurst).

In this example, let's use 1 teaspoon coconut oil. This is your known. Mix your powder into the coconut oil. You have 500mg powder, so if you half the coconut oil, then you have two, 250mg portions. You can then roll those up into a shape of a pill, put in the freezer to harden and then give it just like you do a pill.
If you needed a smaller dose, then divide your oil into 4 portions and so on.

Make sense?

 

[alinas2010]

I'm glad she's improving!

Giving once daily is probably fine to do, especially if you are seeing improvement - so I would just go with it.


**In the future, if you ever find you need to give a smaller dose, with the Aquamox, then yes, the capsules can be emptied. (Or pretty much any capsule that has powder).

What I do is empty the capsule out and mix it with a "known" amount of something like coconut oil (some use cream cheese or liverwurst).

In this example, let's use 1 teaspoon coconut oil. This is your known. Mix your powder into the coconut oil. You have 500mg powder, so if you half the coconut oil, then you have two, 250mg portions. You can then roll those up into a shape of a pill, put in the freezer to harden and then give it just like you do a pill.
If you needed a smaller dose, then divide your oil into 4 portions and so on.

Make sense?

That is incredibly smart to do! Here I was thinking if okay to open the capsule, I’d make some scrambled eggs, sprinkle about half the contents on and try my best to be sure she ate all of them.

I will add that trick to my chicken medical notes, thank you!

 

[Wyorp Rock]

That is incredibly smart to do! Here I was thinking if okay to open the capsule, I’d make some scrambled eggs, sprinkle about half the contents on and try my best to be sure she ate all of them.

I will add that trick to my chicken medical notes, thank you!

Mine can tell when something is "added" to food, they look at it suspiciously and usually just refuse
So....we go the direct oral route.

 

[alinas2010]

Mine can tell when something is "added" to food, they look at it suspiciously and usually just refuse
So....we go the direct oral route.

Meanwhile I get cursed at in chicken for not sharing the antibiotic capsule with anyone else. Did I really say they’d outsmart us if they lived longer?

Day 5 and Jafar is almost back to her normal self today. Stark contrast to what she was like 5 days ago; she would hardly move and she certainly wasn’t eating. I am so thankful for modern medicine. To wrap up these last few days of antibiotic, is it a good idea to give probiotics, also? I worry about imbalances the amoxicillin could cause in her crop or digestive tract. Is there a reason to worry?

And not that she really lays any eggs, but if she were to, just trash them, right?

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Meanwhile I get cursed at in chicken for not sharing the antibiotic capsule with anyone else. Did I really say they’d outsmart us if they lived longer?

Day 5 and Jafar is almost back to her normal self today. Stark contrast to what she was like 5 days ago; she would hardly move and she certainly wasn’t eating. I am so thankful for modern medicine. To wrap up these last few days of antibiotic, is it a good idea to give probiotics, also? I worry about imbalances the amoxicillin could cause in her crop or digestive tract. Is there a reason to worry?

And not that she really lays any eggs, but if she were to, just trash them, right?

LOL The others always think one is getting some special.

I'm so glad she's improving!
Yes, I would give a probiotic. You can use purchased probiotics or give a little plain high quality yogurt (about 1Tablespoon daily).

Some observe a withdrawal period, others don't. A lot depends on how and who may be using the eggs. But for Amoxicillin toss the eggs for 14 days if you wish.

Now, for follow-up, she may do well for how long, it's hard to know.
Did you notice if she seemed to have fluid in the abdomen too? Bloat or fluid? If so, then you may want to read up on giving a Detox. @coach723 has found it to be helpful in certain instances when hens are having trouble. Of course this is not a cure - it's just another "something" that can be tried as part of supportive care and comfort. I have personally not tried the detox, I haven't had a sick hen in a while, but I would try it when the times comes if I've accessed and thought it would be a benefit.

Here's a link to where she's talking about it, but if you search for "detox" and her username, you'll find numerous posts with her sharing her thoughts. https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...ove-now-laid-egg.1446105/page-4#post-24045478