Is E. coli opportunistic in chickens?

[coach723]

I'm very sorry. The best I can tell you, is that you will probably know. I base my decision on whether I think they are suffering or not, whether the suffering is temporary and is likely to possibly improve with treatments or therapies, or is likely to just continue no matter what I do, and whether they are eating, drinking, doing relatively normal chicken things or not, is quality of life good, fair, poor. I do know that when they act unwell, they are usually very, very unwell, otherwise they hide it really well. If they stop eating and drinking, are showing signs of not being really uninterested in normal chicken things of all kinds, that is when it's probably time. Sometimes I will leave them if they still have some fight, just depends on the overall picture. The more birds you have, over time, it becomes a clearer decision, as you experience what their decline generally looks like. There is no one right answer for them all. If, in your opinion, she is suffering needlessly and her quality of life is poor and not going to improve, then it's not a wrong decision. Sometimes it's the biggest gift you can give them, despite how hard it is for you. I read an article somewhere about end of life decisions for other pets. Research showed that people who had more experience with health and age problems in their pets over time, tended to make the decision sooner rather than later, the more times they'd had to deal with it. Not because they didn't care, but because they knew how it was going to be. I've had to make some heart wrenching decisions with pets, seizures, cancers, etc. it is never easy. But watching them suffer needlessly isn't fun, it's stressful, and isn't really fair. It's not black and white, there are many shades of gray. If we really listen to them, they usually let us know.

 

[alinas2010]

I haven’t shared any pictures of her. I’ve been trying to take a lot the past couple days while she still has good moments. I do really think if they lived longer, they might outsmart us. What a gift they are.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I am very sad to report that I think she is going downhill. Her crop has slowed down the past few days and her comb is becoming a little purple on the edges today. She stands about bunched up sometimes but still eats and drinks and does chicken stuff sometimes, too. Shes fighting crop massages, so idk what to make of her. I kept saying I’d wait for her to come out of the molt and see how much of her behavior changed. But it’s so hard to watch her unwell. Then I see her fight me and want to do chicken things and am slightly relieved. It would break my heart to put her down if she still has will to live. This is my first chicken I will have to euthanize, how will I know when to do it?

Coach's post said it all.

I'm sorry she's going downhill. I love the photos, what a lovely lady

 

[alinas2010]

I don’t know want to have false hope, but Jafar is still hanging in there. And I don’t just mean by a thread. You weren’t kidding when you all said there were ups and downs. I saw her going downhill more and I was going to take her to the vet with me at the end of June to have her euthanized when the dog had an appointment. I didn’t want her to suffer anymore. But then a day before the appointment, she was the first one to the gate to be let out of the run. She also went for scratch and BSFL that morning, so I watched her that day and she didn’t sit around quite as much. I reconsidered taking her in and thought, worst comes to worse I can always take her in another time. She just seemed to improve a tiny bit every day.

She is still molting, finishing up, though and starting to look a lot better and putting on weight. If I’m being honest I can’t say for sure that she is feeling 100, she occasionally does sit around, but I find myself worried a lot less about her based on her behavior. Again, you all said the heat was tougher; I see her struggle more on days closer or over 100 degrees.

I’ll try to get a picture of her today and compare it to one from what I thought was her sickest point. I’m so proud of her. But now I don’t know what to expect after the molt. Will she have a fall molt since she already went through this one? I’m praying she doesn’t resume laying, what are the odds of that? Will it make her decline again if she does?

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I don’t know want to have false hope, but Jafar is still hanging in there. And I don’t just mean by a thread. You weren’t kidding when you all said there were ups and downs. I saw her going downhill more and I was going to take her to the vet with me at the end of June to have her euthanized when the dog had an appointment. I didn’t want her to suffer anymore. But then a day before the appointment, she was the first one to the gate to be let out of the run. She also went for scratch and BSFL that morning, so I watched her that day and she didn’t sit around quite as much. I reconsidered taking her in and thought, worst comes to worse I can always take her in another time. She just seemed to improve a tiny bit every day.

She is still molting, finishing up, though and starting to look a lot better and putting on weight. If I’m being honest I can’t say for sure that she is feeling 100, she occasionally does sit around, but I find myself worried a lot less about her based on her behavior. Again, you all said the heat was tougher; I see her struggle more on days closer or over 100 degrees.

I’ll try to get a picture of her today and compare it to one from what I thought was her sickest point. I’m so proud of her. But now I don’t know what to expect after the molt. Will she have a fall molt since she already went through this one? I’m praying she doesn’t resume laying, what are the odds of that? Will it make her decline again if she does?

I'm glad to hear she's still hanging in there!

Yes, they can go up and down that's for sure.

She probably won't molt again, time will tell on that, but I'd say not, especially is she's having a full blown molt (losing all of her feathers).

Possible she may come back into lay, you just never know what their little bodies will do.

 

[alinas2010]

These ailments don’t exactly follow a handbook, that’s for sure!

I guess I should add for anyone who comes across this later, incase it’s helpful; after she finished the antibiotic, her crop slowed way down. She had been eating a little bit of plain Greek yogurt per day during her treatment and had probiotics in her water during and for a few days after. I hoped that would help with the slow crop, but it didn’t seem to.

She hated being handled and seemed to be in so much pain. Her crop started to get doughy feeling and just would not empty. She would not let me massage it, and she wouldn’t eat much. As a last ditch effort to try to help her I bought Monistat, which she refused to eat any way I tried to give it to her. But I discovered she would eat blueberries still when I threw some mushy ones out to the girls. So I hallowed out some blueberries and filled a few with 1 cc (I believe) of medication 3x a day for 1 week. Her crop started to shrink and she perked up! I was so hopeful she would fully recover.

However, after the 7 day treatment her crop grew a little again, she started to decline once more and stopped eating even blueberries. She lost a ton of weight by this point and was hunched up a lot, it was sad. It was at that point that I decided to euthanize her.

That brings me to when the day before I was going to take her in she was the first one waiting by the run gate to be let out. Slowly she became more interested in treats, then mash and canned chicken again, then finally her pellets. Just over the past few weeks she has put on a little bit more weight - is still underweight, but hopefully we’ll get there. It could be that she is finally feeling better coming out of molt.

Of course this could also all be short lived, who knows. But I’ll just take it day by day with her and enjoy the days she has left with us.

Here she was pre-sickness (lowest in the pecking order):

Here she was on a really poor day. I realized I did not take many pictures of her doing poorly because I didn’t want to remember her that way:

And now here she is today:

 

[alinas2010]

Jafar went back to “healthy” hen behavior this week. Much to my dismay, her comb and wattles reddened up and she started squatting a few weeks ago. Then this week she started spending time in the nesting box, without producing an egg. What I have found, however, are two lash eggs this week. One under the roost at the beginning of the week and one in the nest box this morning. To say I am shocked would be a lie. I am disappointed, though, I thought she was getting healthier with the weight gain. Darn it. Is there anything I can do for her? Would another round of antibiotics be advised or should I just let her live the rest of her life in peace until the last few days, when I assume she becomes sick? She’s acting fine and healthy right now. Eating, drinking, complaining, catching bugs, all sorts of happy chicken things. I even thought her abdomen wasn’t as ballooned anymore. I assume she has 4-6 months left, though, based on what I’ve read about lash material being expelled, is that right?

 

[coach723]

So sorry. It's very hard to predict how long they have. I have one with salpingitis that is really advanced. I have expected to find her gone every morning for over a year. But she keeps on going. Her abdomen is huge, she waddles, can't jump, can't roost. But she eats and drinks and takes very uncoordinated dust baths, and gives her (small limited) flockmates what for. So I leave her be. I have known she has salpingitis for at least a year and a half. I've had others last long too, but then others have passed really quickly. So it's really hard to know. I have on occasion repeated a round of antibiotic, if it seemed like it still brought some comfort. If I do a round and there seems to be no difference, then I won't repeat it. I do think, in some cases, it can knock it back a bit and maybe give them a little more time. Often times when they expel some of the matter they will feel better for a while, and then the cycle repeats. Depending on how the lash material is building inside, sometimes it just can't pass and just builds up. I've seen necropsies where the inside of the oviduct is just packed full of it. They are so stoic about it all, we often have no idea how advanced it may be.

 

[alinas2010]

So sorry. It's very hard to predict how long they have. I have one with salpingitis that is really advanced. I have expected to find her gone every morning for over a year. But she keeps on going. Her abdomen is huge, she waddles, can't jump, can't roost. But she eats and drinks and takes very uncoordinated dust baths, and gives her (small limited) flockmates what for. So I leave her be. I have known she has salpingitis for at least a year and a half. I've had others last long too, but then others have passed really quickly. So it's really hard to know. I have on occasion repeated a round of antibiotic, if it seemed like it still brought some comfort. If I do a round and there seems to be no difference, then I won't repeat it. I do think, in some cases, it can knock it back a bit and maybe give them a little more time. Often times when they expel some of the matter they will feel better for a while, and then the cycle repeats. Depending on how the lash material is building inside, sometimes it just can't pass and just builds up. I've seen necropsies where the inside of the oviduct is just packed full of it. They are so stoic about it all, we often have no idea how advanced it may be.

Hearing about her gives me a sliver of hope for longer with my Jafar. Ultimately of course, I won’t want her to suffer. I guess I’ll just wait and see how she does. Not sure I’ll do another round of amoxicillin, I don’t think it would do much for her at this point. It certainly can’t be good that she has had two lash eggs in one week, but it did occur to me that maybe it has relieved some pressure on her insides or something of that nature. I wish she would’ve not resumed laying behaviors and could’ve just been a lawn ornament

 

[coach723]

For some of them, enrofloxacin seems to be a little more effective. If you ever want to try that, you can get the oral medication here:
https://jedds.com/products/enroflox...qYn5WezRJKgvWb5Bh32asGoHj0pGDZ_sLLmihrxmrLyKm
At least for now, we can still get that one. It may or may not be better, it's a stronger antibiotic, just depends on the bacteria present. For salpingitis, there is not a lot of good resource information on underlying causes, and multiple types of bacteria are suspect.