Is it possible to get the best of both worlds?

[Amer]

So theoretically if I do this, and it indeed works, I get the perfect color of chantecler I want; does that mean that it technically isn't a chantecler? And if the color of it isn't correct, how likely is it that there are other features of the bird that isn't correct, such as egg laying or their pea comb?

Would having so many cockerels together be a bad idea? Would they free for all fight to the death? Or would they be docile?

Well, it would be an imperfectly colored Chantecler (or a different variety of Chantecler) but it would still be a Chantecler.

Cockerels don’t typically fight to the death if they are raised together. (I’ve had it happen once with Ameraucanas, but those do not represent Chanteclers.) I don’t know how Chanteclers are.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

@Ted Brown raises them I believe

 

[Ted Brown]

@Ted Brown raises them I believe

First that I have looked at this thread, have only glanced at some posts.

I raise the original White Chantecler as bred by Brother Wilfred Chatelain and admitted to the APA in 1921 (I think). I don't think this is what the OP is looking for.

The White Chantecler is a large fowl, laying upwards of 200 eggs per year, very good temperament, dual purpose, very cold amenable. All together an excellent bird.

Well, it would be an imperfectly colored Chantecler (or a different variety of Chantecler) but it would still be a Chantecler.

Cockerels don’t typically fight to the death if they are raised together. (I’ve had it happen once with Ameraucanas, but those do not represent Chanteclers.) I don’t know how Chanteclers are.

As I understand the SOP it requires that a specimen match the details described. Hence an "imperfectly colored Chantecler" would not be considered as such.

In my experience White Chantecler males can coexist if they are raised together however, if they are housed with hens/pullets they will gang up and peck them to death.

 

[NatJ]

So theoretically if I do this, and it indeed works, I get the perfect color of chantecler I want; does that mean that it technically isn't a chantecler? And if the color of it isn't correct, how likely is it that there are other features of the bird that isn't correct, such as egg laying or their pea comb?

If the birds come from a hatchery, egg laying is likely to be pretty good. They don't even have to consciously select for it-- just that the ones who lay the most eggs, contribute the most offspring to the next generation.

Chanteclers are supposed to have a cushion comb (genetically pea + rose, which a geneticist would call "walnut.") There is a pretty good chance of the chickens having the right comb type, but that is something you could mostly tell by looking at the bird. And if you get a rooster with the color you want but the wrong comb, maybe pick hens with the right comb and work on that over the next few generations.

I can see why some other people would not call it a Chanticler at all, but personally I would call it a "non-standard color of Chantecler." That would make it clear that the color is definitely "wrong" for any accepted variety of Chantecler, but the other traits are mostly right (since that is what you are trying to achieve.)

Would having so many cockerels together be a bad idea? Would they free for all fight to the death? Or would they be docile?

Actual gamefowl would be a different situation, but most of the common domesticated breeds can have males live together. The hatcheries almost certainly have a flock with multiple roosters and many hens, and the roosters cannot all kill each other (or the hatchery would no longer be selling that breed!)

It partly depends on how long you keep them, but I would expect them to be fine for at least long enough that you can get a good idea of color (2-4 months will probably let you form a good idea of which ones are close to what you want, and which are definitely wrong.)

Having just two or three may cause more trouble than having a larger number (they often interact differently in large groups than in small ones.) Having no females at all can work well, or else large numbers of females. Having just a few females with many males can be quite hard on the females, and I would not recommend that once they are old enough for you to tell them apart.

 

[Amer]

Having just two or three may cause more trouble than having a larger number (they often interact differently in large groups than in small ones.)

TRUE

 

[mwturn99]

If the birds come from a hatchery, egg laying is likely to be pretty good. They don't even have to consciously select for it-- just that the ones who lay the most eggs, contribute the most offspring to the next generation.

Chanteclers are supposed to have a cushion comb (genetically pea + rose, which a geneticist would call "walnut.") There is a pretty good chance of the chickens having the right comb type, but that is something you could mostly tell by looking at the bird. And if you get a rooster with the color you want but the wrong comb, maybe pick hens with the right comb and work on that over the next few generations.

I can see why some other people would not call it a Chanticler at all, but personally I would call it a "non-standard color of Chantecler." That would make it clear that the color is definitely "wrong" for any accepted variety of Chantecler, but the other traits are mostly right (since that is what you are trying to achieve.)


Actual gamefowl would be a different situation, but most of the common domesticated breeds can have males live together. The hatcheries almost certainly have a flock with multiple roosters and many hens, and the roosters cannot all kill each other (or the hatchery would no longer be selling that breed!)

It partly depends on how long you keep them, but I would expect them to be fine for at least long enough that you can get a good idea of color (2-4 months will probably let you form a good idea of which ones are close to what you want, and which are definitely wrong.)

Having just two or three may cause more trouble than having a larger number (they often interact differently in large groups than in small ones.) Having no females at all can work well, or else large numbers of females. Having just a few females with many males can be quite hard on the females, and I would not recommend that once they are old enough for you to tell them apart.

Wow. I am beyond words. Thank you Nat, you have been so much help since the beginning, Thank you. I can't wait to start my chicken journey, and when I get the perfect chicken, I'll have you to thank.
So tell me, what kind of chickens do you have, and where did all your chicken knowledge come from? And what's you're favorite breed?

 

[NatJ]

Thank you Nat...So tell me, what kind of chickens do you have, and where did all your chicken knowledge come from? And what's you're favorite breed?

I have had chickens off an on for over 30 years. I have had quite a few different breeds, in various numbers and various combinations. Favorite breed? I'm not sure. I especially like chickens with pea combs, clean legs, pretty colored feathers, and who lay brown eggs. Among the breeds that exist (not many have all those traits), I might pick Cornish Bantams as my favorites so far, but I wouldn't want to be stuck with just one kind of chicken.

I first learned about chickens from my mother, who had been raising them since she was little, and she had learned from her father, who learned from his parents, and so on for I don't know how far back. Other than that, I like to read and learn about chickens, and some of the information sticks in my head so I remember it later. Over enough years, it adds up to quite a bit of knowledge.


As regards roosters living in groups with large numbers of hens, Cackle Hatchery has videos of their breeding flocks on some of the breed pages. Example:
https://www.cacklehatchery.com/product/cinnamon-queens/
There is a list of description, breed facts, videos, etc. on one part of the page. Selecting videos will show several options, and one is called "Cinnamon Queen Parent Stock."

This should be a direct link to youtube, for the same video.
In that one, the red birds are the roosters, and the white birds are the hens. (This flock is producing hybrid chicks that can be sexed by color at hatch.) The different colors make it easy to see how many of what are in the building-- lots of roosters and even more hens.

That is going to be a fairly typical setup for a hatchery breeding flock. But when they house chickens that way, of course they cannot tolerate roosters that fight to the death. Dead roosters means none left to breed! But being able to house chickens in large groups makes it much easier and cheaper to produce large numbers of chicks to sell.

Incidentally, when people cite ratios of how many hens per rooster: THIS is the kind of situation those numbers are really meant for. The hatchery wants to feed as few roosters as possible (because roosters don't lay eggs) but they need enough to be sure all the eggs are fertile.

For comparison, here is a Cackle Hatchery video (really just a series of still photos) of Standard Old English Game chickens.

These ones are housed in smaller pens, with several hens and only one rooster per pen. That is a good sign that these roosters would NOT do well together. Having to separate them like that is a nuisance and much more expensive (more pens, more time tending those pens, and so forth), so not many hatcheries offer them, and the price per chick is fairly high. Most breeds sold by hatcheries do not require this kind of separation.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

especially like chickens with pea combs, clean legs, pretty colored feathers, and who lay brown eggs. Among the breeds that exist (not many have all those traits), I might pick Cornish Bantams as my favorites so far, but I wouldn't want to be stuck with just one kind of chicken.

Settle for tan and you'd be very happy with them. Especially if you get a double breasted male. I can show the difference when I get home if you'd like

 

[NatJ]

Settle for tan and you'd be very happy with them. Especially if you get a double breasted male. I can show the difference when I get home if you'd like

I got some Dark Cornish Bantams by mistake over 20 years ago, which is when I learned that I like them. I've had several colors of Cornish Bantams at various points since then. But I always enjoy seeing photos of yours too

I consider them to lay brown eggs (since they certainly are not white or blue/green.) I'm not too picky about what shade of brown the eggs are, so no complaints there.

 

[Folly's place]

Haven't read the whole thread, but have you looked at partridge Chanteclers? Bigger, cold hardy reasonable egg layers, good meat, and can be broody.
Otherwise, a flock having several breed types, so you have some of everything in the group.
Mary