Is it worth it?

[MillersFarm]

So I recently acquired 3 unsexed ayam cemani chicks, I think I have 1 cockerel and 2 pullets. The problem is, they are all siblings and I tend to use these for breeding. I do not want an inbred breeding stock of cemanis, so i've been looking for other local breeders that sell hatching eggs or chicks. No luck so far. Now i'm thinking of getting some hatching eggs online from this breeder who is selling 6 fertile Exhibition ayam cemani hatching eggs for $48. Is it worth it? I know That there are a whole bunch of risks when buying shipped hatching eggs.. But I really would love to add some exhibition/unrelated bloodlines to my "stock"

Here are some pics of the parents.

 

[chuckachucka]

It is a risk because I have bought shipped eggs many times and a couple of times zero developed under an experienced broody due to infertile eggs or scrambled air cells in the post. Several times I had one, two or three out of six hatch. The most I have ever got from six shipped eggs is four chicks. If you only got one chick all your chicks would be full or half siblings, and $48 is quite a lot for six eggs. I don't know how good the parent birds are in terms of exhibition quality but even if they are in top shape this does not guarantee exhibition quality offspring. In the end it depends on how badly you want fresh blood for your stock.

 

[MillersFarm]

It is a risk because I have bought shipped eggs many times and a couple of times zero developed under an experienced broody due to infertile eggs or scrambled air cells in the post. Several times I had one, two or three out of six hatch. The most I have ever got from six shipped eggs is four chicks. If you only got one chick all your chicks would be full or half siblings, and $48 is quite a lot for six eggs. I don't know how good the parent birds are in terms of exhibition quality but even if they are in top shape this does not guarantee exhibition quality offspring. In the end it depends on how badly you want fresh blood for your stock.

I'm more focused on having different bloodlines. But I would also like to have some exhibition stock as well.. The breeder "claims" to heavily cull their breeding program to promote the best looking birds that are dark black and not showing bleed through of mahogany or other hues..

I have bought shipped eggs in the past and had some of the best and worst luck. Once got only 1 egg to form out of 15 that one of my brooders were sitting on.. I've also had 18 out of 19 eggs develop embryos as well. I've just never bought fewer than 10 eggs before. . .

 

[Ridgerunner]

Practically everybody uses siblings for breeding. If you do get some eggs and they hatch you would soon be breeding siblings. I don't know how inbred those current three chicks are so I don't know where you are starting from. Is there any way to get some kind of handle on that? Maybe talk to your source about that and where they get other stock, if they do. There are techniques like Spiral Breeding some people use to reduce the loss of genetic diversity but not everyone uses them.

What are your goals for them, do they need to be to the standard of perfection? If not, some hatcheries sell them. Or you might follow this link, I did not see New York on the breeder's list but neighboring states have some.

https://www.ayamcemani.us/

I've only hatched shipped eggs twice, both times turkeys. The first time I got 1 out of 6 to hatch. The next time it was 5 out of 5. I've also had extremely poor and extremely great hatches from eggs I've collected from my own chicken flock so any hatch is a risk, but shipped eggs are really iffy. How badly do you want or need new blood? Is it worth it to you. That has to be your decision. Good luck!

 

[EggSighted4Life]

So I recently acquired 3 unsexed ayam cemani chicks, I think I have 1 cockerel and 2 pullets. The problem is, they are all siblings and I tend to use these for breeding. I do not want an inbred breeding stock of cemanis, so i've been looking for other local breeders that sell hatching eggs or chicks. No luck so far. Now i'm thinking of getting some hatching eggs online from this breeder who is selling 6 fertile Exhibition ayam cemani hatching eggs for $48. Is it worth it? I know That there are a whole bunch of risks when buying shipped hatching eggs.. But I really would love to add some exhibition/unrelated bloodlines to my "stock"

Here are some pics of the parents.
View attachment 1552203 View attachment 1552211 View attachment 1552213 View attachment 1552214 View attachment 1552215

Your birds are pretty.

I would not buy 6 SHIPPED hatching eggs... depending on how far they are coming from. Hatch rates are just too low.

I'm not digging the floppy combs and not sure if that's accepted in this breed.

But inbreeding in chickens is not the same problem it is in mammals and is usually OK for several generations before issues start popping up. It is called line breeding and many breeders use it. Check out this info graph for a basic concept idea...
http://www.maransofamericaclub.com/inbreeding-chickens.html

I personally spent $165 on shipped hatching eggs recently and got 3 cockerels. Might have been worth my $ to just get chicks from somewhere that guarantees live delivery.

And if someone calls their birds exhibition quality... I like to know what shows they have won and what qualities the select for or against. Color leakage isn't enough for me. They must also select against comb sprigs, split wing, body type, personality, laying ability, and many many more things. Where their original stock came from, how far apart is their bloodline. Out of the breeds I have and hatch... despite selecting heavily in my parent stock... only about 10% of offspring are what I would consider TRULY good to their standard of perfection. That's why I hatch and raise so many so I can keep the best. Also if they aren't NPIP certified... it's essentially a deal breaker for me, especially at that price. If you're gonna ask a premium you need to be compliant to import laws of each state. While many things cannot be passed to the eggs, some can.

Also don't expect to make bank off of a rare breed... my experience says a few people are looking for rare breeds but MANY people are looking for popular breeds. Covering your expenses is a possibility, but getting rich really isn't. Breeding poultry is a labor of love with many side benefits and MANY awesome challenges.

Good luck!

 

[WVduckchick]

Wow those are some gorgeous birds!
I think I would also try to find out the probability of your 3 being full siblings, and if they are, how many generations are the parents from the same line. I agree, we all line-breed to an extent, especially to get started with a new breed.

Shipping is always a gamble, but you know that, but I can surely see your temptation!

 

[Morgank]

I dont mix siblings and never. I dont reccomend this. I have only 5 AC pullets and I get them rooster in spring, because I am from Europe. To me its easy, there is my neighbor countrys. But always ask pictures of cemani birds. I notice (sorry I have to tell this) that in USA there is many breeders who dosn´t have pure breed. The comb, wattle, peak, nails has to be black, not half pink. I got from Germany AC eggs and all of them wasn´t pure breed.

 

[MillersFarm]

Wow those are some gorgeous birds!
I think I would also try to find out the probability of your 3 being full siblings, and if they are, how many generations are the parents from the same line. I agree, we all line-breed to an extent, especially to get started with a new breed.

Shipping is always a gamble, but you know that, but I can surely see your temptation!

I know for a fact that they are siblings, the breeder I got them from only have 2 Ayam cemanis, A rooster and a hen.

I wasn't sure about the floppy combs either. I tried looking up the standard for cemanis but found nothing about floppy combs.. The chicks I have now parents had pretty big combs but they didn't drop so much.. But I do know they aren't as good quality as the birds I posted here
I'm not sure if these two are siblings or not either..? The lady said she got them from a friend who used to breed them.

 

[Mosey2003]

I would be hesitant with them claiming they are exhibition stock. Ayam Cemani are not accepted in the APA yet as far as I know, so they're being a bit disingenuous.

If you want to spend the money knowing full well that it's very likely you end up with zero chicks, go ahead. But you can breed the siblings and add different blood later just as well.

 

[Morgank]

Also I have 2 blue- salmon faverolle pullets, whitch are rare. And to me it is headache, where do i find them rooster? Original home, there is rooster also. I cant never took him. There is so huge risk, if you want breed and sell them.