Is it worth it?

[Trux]

Ever thought of getting pullets and cockerels instead of hatching eggs?

 

[DesertBird]

I would be wary of any breeder that uses altered pictures to show off breeding stock.

The pictures are not black & white but they are desaturated - meaning the dark color you see on the birds is very likely altered as well. It could just be the overcast but for how dulled it is, my money is on altered. Quality stock doesn't need altered photos, especially with a rare(r) breed, yknow?

That part just seems a bit suspicious to me.

Edit: not overcast, edited. If these are supposed to be the same birds you can clearly see the difference in the leg coloration from the rooster in pic one (a grey) to the pitch black of the foot in the photo of it.

You can also tell how much paler your picture is of the roo's comb compared to the altered ones.

That's a shady practice to me.

Oh, did they mean those are the parents of their current ones or the eggs?

 

[MillersFarm]

Oh get the eggs! Your trio will be grown and you can test their eggs before any of the shipped ones are old enough to breed/lay anyway!

Hmm..

I would be wary of any breeder that uses altered pictures to show off breeding stock.

The pictures are not black & white but they are desaturated - meaning the dark color you see on the birds is very likely altered as well. It could just be the overcast but for how dulled it is, my money is on altered. Quality stock doesn't need altered photos, especially with a rare(r) breed, yknow?

That part just seems a bit suspicious to me.

Edit: not overcast, edited. If these are supposed to be the same birds you can clearly see the difference in the leg coloration from the rooster in pic one (a grey) to the pitch black of the foot in the photo of it.

You can also tell how much paler your picture is of the roo's comb compared to the altered ones.

That's a shady practice to me.

Yes, I did notice that the pics looked altered, Although it doesn't look like much as been done to the pics.. I love photography and edit pictures lots, So I sort of know what to look for. I believe that the pictures could of been desaturated. But they still look good in my opinion. The leg does get me thinking tbh. Looks polished and very dark compared to the rooster's legs in the pics..

Ever thought of getting pullets and cockerels instead of hatching eggs?

If I had the money and someone to actually buy them from I would~ But ACs aren't really common around where I live unfortunately..

 

[WVduckchick]

And black birds can be very hard to photograph!

 

[Mosey2003]

The risk is just unusually high with these birds. First, you have to get ANY of those six eggs to hatch. Six. Then, say you do amazingly well for shipped eggs and get 4-5 chicks. How many of those are going to have leakage and be culls? How many, even if they are totally black, are going to be poor specimens due to body type? What if cocci rolls through your brooder hard and then knocks them all out?

If you have money to basically throw away and be fine never seeing anything in result, buy the eggs. And I don't mean that in a snarky way. But if you're going to be very hopeful, you're probably going to be disappointed.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Actually that's how I found the chicks I have now, They were $50 per chick which I thought was a little too pricey at first but they were selling out fast and were the only people breeding ACs less than 3 hours away from me. Craigslist is my go-to place if i'm looking for something lol.


Thank you, I'd love to sometime

That's a very good point! I haven't thought about that at all.. I guess i'll keep my trio and breed them for a little while.. Just to see what I get, But i'm still thinking about getting these hatching eggs as well. Even if I do end up with nothing Thank you for the useful information

I personally would make two breeding pens and separate your females so you can breed the rooster to each to get two lines of only half siblings... that you could then cross to each other... that way only your first generation are full siblings. It's great that you know your starter stock are full sibling... not sure if originals are full or half sibling or completely unrelated... even though there is just two.

Maybe worth the $ to just buy from greenfire farms? Or other reputable hatchery.

$48 is drop in the bucket for me when it comes to breeding stock... stingy people can bite me though. Some birds are worth the funds. My time is the part that's invaluable to me... And honesty is critical. If I sense ANY shadiness.. I'm OUT, period... and will spend twice the funds or more to work with someone I feel is honest... EVEN if their birds are a little "less" quality.

I have a local guy that sell AC on craigslist too... stupidly (IMO) some are crossed to Svart Hona... This person though... cares very much about his breeding and discloses MUCH. He also has pure AC and other rare breeds... but like many of us, enjoys a little experiment now and then. When he has birds that don't meet his expectation he either sells real cheap or doesn't label them as a specific breed but just "laying hen" or whatever the accurate basic description would be.

I'm not familiar enough with this breed or their standard to give a true opinion on their quality... but ANYONE who advertises exhibition quality has got some splainin' to do. Anyone who was serious about breeding would NOT cut their stock down to ONLY two birds AND be selling the chicks... they NEED to up their own personal flock for some genetic diversity. Sorry there are lots of details going in my brain... I know YOUR stock came from a flock of only 2.. but not sure how many are in the hatching egg flock... not that many if they can only come up with 6 eggs... would be my guess... BUT I am here to learn, so I will also know what to look for in the future!

One thing I find key in getting good stock... patience... some just aren't on your radar RIGHT now, but once you've settled they come out of the woodwork. Networking with local chicken people including feed store owners, 4H'ers and such can be a great resource... going to chicken shows also a great networking place.

Whatever you decide... enjoy your grand adventure!

And have a plan for all the extra cockerels. I go in knowing that if I want the BEST stock... not many birds will make it past a year or two in the breeding program... as you raise more and learn more you start to see the nuances a LOT easier of your selected breed... like the pink toes mentioned... that may not make them not pure (some of my Silkies put out pink toes, I KNOW they're pure), you can see those at hatch (and cull immediately, either selling as pet quality or dispatch to prevent your resources from being used to raise a bird that won't be used in your breeding stock).

I agree getting good pics of birds can be difficult...

If you feel as though they are good quality... I will say that breeding takes time and starting with quality can save you years to get where you want to be.

If I was gonna buy from ANY random stranger... I would probably check ebay... get lots of pics... even inside the mouth on this breed, with wings spread to show they aren't split... and so on down the line. I also wanna see eggs, know when was the last time they brought new birds into their flock.

Yes, this year... I did get some terrible hatches from my own stock that weren't shipped.. it does happen. Out of the money I spent and got 3 cockerels... there were more that hatched but I had to cull for one reason or another.

 

[Mosey2003]

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Maybe worth the $ to just buy from greenfire farms? Or other reputable hatchery.

$48 is drop in the bucket for me when it comes to breeding stock... stingy people can bite me though. Some birds are worth the funds. My time is the part that's invaluable to me... And honesty is critical. If I sense ANY shadiness.. I'm OUT, period... and will spend twice the funds or more to work with someone I feel is honest... EVEN if their birds are a little "less" quality.

I'm not sure I'd call GFF truly reputable, as far as true quality goes.

I agree, I don't mind spending good money on good birds one bit. But just from what is posted about the AC seller, it screams shady to me. If the breed is not accepted by the APA, you can't call it exhibition stock. Where, precisely, are they being exhibited?

$48 is very little, but I don't feel like it's a very good deal when you're talking about it buying 6 shipped eggs. A dozen? Maybe. Two dozen, very fair. But 6? From a breeder we don't know from Adam? Ehhhhh.

 

[KikiLeigh02]

Have you tried asking on BYC if anyone has any to ship? I like the perk of being able to look through their other posts, especially with a breed like AC. I'm sure you checked it out, but that seller has pretty decent reviews. There were a couple that said an egg was broken in transit, but mostly they were positive. My issue is Texas to NY is pretty far to ship eggs, and 6 eggs does not give you much wiggle room. I'm not super familiar with AC, but I do know people who breed them seriously cull really heavily. So if you get 2-3 chicks to hatch what is the likelihood that any will end up actually being breeding quality?

 

[Mosey2003]

I suppose my view here is a little biased because it's Ayam Cemani. I have a kneejerk reaction to "fancy rare breeds" that storm onto the market and demand huge prices where they seem to have come out of nowhere. You see it in all animals. I would feel differently if or when they manage to get a standard accepted into the APA and breeders can truly say they are breeding to the standard, rather than simply breeding as many possible from wherever they got them and culling who knows how many for color leakage.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I'm not sure I'd call GFF truly reputable, as far as true quality goes.

I mostly agree... but at least don't worry about catching disease form them. To me they are a hatchery and not a breeder. I'm glad they have gone through the effort of importing and bringing so many breeds to the masses... It makes *almost* nothing truly that rare... just if you are willing to spend the a few more dollars.

And when I look at their pics... for example their FBCM is alleged to be the only apa certified flock (maybe for hatcheries IDK)... their egg color sure isn't impressive and I swear I THINK I even saw a comb sprig on one.

So if you get 2-3 chicks to hatch what is the likelihood that any will end up actually being breeding quality?

Eggzactly... even good stock put out not perfect offspring.