is my dog guilty

[SpidersHuman]

Dog wentthrough 2 years of obedient classes showed him in our ag fair. The fence is only not staked down at the gait where it was ripped up and dug under, I've since rewired it. And that's why i only leave the birds out during the day and have locked stalls at night. We've never had a predator problem in broad daylight besides hawks

 

[Ol Grey Mare]

Dog wentthrough 2 years of obedient classes showed him in our ag fair. The fence is only not staked down at the gait where it was ripped up and dug under, I've since rewired it. And that's why i only leave the birds out during the day and have locked stalls at night. We've never had a predator problem in broad daylight besides hawks

Which, unfortunately, has nothing to do with whether or not a dog will take after chickens given the chance. The training being referred to in the question above is specifically in regards to time spent training with your flock.

 

[Nuggetirl]

Quote: X2 I have a very obedient dog that knows not to chase cats, but never saw a chicken and tried to eat my chickens when I brought them home. It's a prey thing, they flap and it gets the dog excited. The chickens probably freaked out about something, anything, got the dog in 'predator mode' and he got them. It's not the dog's fault.

I'd also point out that if you're planning on giving the dog up for adoption, elderly dogs have a hard time getting adopted, as do large black dogs. He's all three and would be miserable. He can be taught how to act around the chickens, and your run can be fortified.

The dog may be the culprit, but that doesn't mean it's his fault.

 

[islandgirl82]

Based on experience, even if daylight attacks weren't previously a problem they can quickly become so...especially by a mother fox with kits to feed. Also, they will kill what they catch and come back for what they can't carry later on. I lost my entire bevy of ducks and my rooster and a hen in one go that way. Walked into the barn to check everyone after a massive snowstorm and at first only found a solitary hen. No bodies, no blood and hardly any feathers. Only when I was talking to that one hen did the other come out of hiding...she managed to escape that stall and stay hidden during the raid.

Obviously I'm biased when it comes to the dog and hoping that maybe...just maybe he saw something other than what was supposed to be in there and went in after it, hence the obese dog-sized hole and a muddy pup. And his timing could be why nothing was taken.

 

[Nuggetirl]

Based on experience, even if daylight attacks weren't previously a problem they can quickly become so...especially by a mother fox with kits to feed. Also, they will kill what they catch and come back for what they can't carry later on. I lost my entire bevy of ducks and my rooster and a hen in one go that way. Walked into the barn to check everyone after a massive snowstorm and at first only found a solitary hen. No bodies, no blood and hardly any feathers. Only when I was talking to that one hen did the other come out of hiding...she managed to escape that stall and stay hidden during the raid.

Obviously I'm biased when it comes to the dog and hoping that maybe...just maybe he saw something other than what was supposed to be in there and went in after it, hence the obese dog-sized hole and a muddy pup. And his timing could be why nothing was taken.

This brings up something I didn't think of - what kind of wire was it? 7 year old obese pets don't generally rip through wire.... but if a hole was already started by something else? That seems very plausible.
Was the dog completely indifferent to the chickens until this day? It's not like something snapped in his head and he went crazy and ripped a hole in the fence and killed everything. There would have been signs, pacing outside the run, quivering and super concentration when they flap, barking at them, being generally excited by the chickens. If none of these were happening, then it is very likely that something else created that hole.
Did you check the fence before you let them out? (I think you might have said it was the gate?) if there was already a hole and it smelled like fox, or a fox made a hole, or raccoon, the dog was probably exploring that and got excited by the chickens and enlarged it. (and that's only if the dog is the culprit)

Regardless, I'm still of the opinion that the dog didn't do anything but dog things. When my excitable terrier jumped on my nephew, knocked him down, and licked his face, I didn't punish him or blame him. I taught him that that isn't acceptable behavior. When my sheltie dug up a baby bunny nest and drug them all over the yard, it was sad and unfortunate but they made little noises in the ground and he was curious.

 

[islandgirl82]

7 year old obese pets don't generally rip through wire.... but if a hole was already started by something else? That seems very plausible.

Not only that but an animal who is out of shape would be far less likely to actually catch things that are running all over the place than an animal who has to hunt for every meal...let alone be able to quietly and gracefully kill the entire flock. It would have been exhausting after the first one or two and those chickens wouldn't have just stood still waiting for their turn. They would have been frantic.

But if the dog is the culprit, I do agree...he followed his instincts and didn't have the training/guidance he needed to know how to behave around these new flappy chattering things that seem an awful lot like the best dog toys ever.

Either way, I'm sorry this happened.

 

[SpidersHuman]

Fence was welded wire that was attached to another piece if welded wire for the gait. It was ripped at the seam and pushed up dug under. There was no hole prior to incident it was in plain sight. He's never seemed to even notice the chickens and was fine with the ducks in the yard but I was always present. Where we lived prior he was caught killing neighbors chickens red pawed but since we moved we don't have neighbors and we've been here 4 yrs

 

[SpidersHuman]

Thank you all

 

[Nuggetirl]

How was it attached?

A 7 year old obese lab is over middle aged. It sounds like that wouldn't be easy for him. Welded wire is tough.

And when he killed the neighbors chickens, that was 4 years ago, when your dog was 3. A three year old lab is just out of puppy stage.
I just can't help thinking there must have been something different about that day. A fox that ripped it open, or something. As Islandgirl said above, he would have been tired after the first few, and the would have been running around like crazy.

There are so many factors, did you check his teeth? Did you check him completely for blood? Dogs tend to 'death shake' things (I'm sure you've seen how they shake their toys) so were the chickens necks broken? How big were the puncture wounds? Labs have more rounded teeth because they are retrievers, he would have had to apply considerable force and create larger holes than say, a cat, fox, or another breed.

A muddy dog is not a chicken killer. Maybe someone else's dog broke your fence, and your dog only attacked the rooster that was out of the pen because it was easy and he was excited then went to investigate. Maybe there was a cat in there and the dog broke the gate and then got over stimulated.

(also, a dog that looks guilty is usually just reading your body language and voice. I can make my dog duck his head in 'shame' by saying his name with a certain disappointed lilt. After you found the chickens, you were definitely mad and probably calling for the dog to come, but since it wasn't in a happy voice he cowered in the front yard)

Honestly , it doesn't matter what actually happened. We'll never know. I'd just like to know the dog is safe and will be getting chicken training instead of being rehomed. I don't want to turn this into a post about what you should or shouldn't do with your pets (or a personal attack, please don't take it as that) as you just wanted to know if he did it or not, but you've had the dog much longer than the chickens. He doesn't have a whole lot of time left. His chances in a shelter are slim. Giving him to a relative or friend is better, but is it really fair to the dog?

Even if the dog did it, please don't blame him for doing dog things. Even if my dogs tore into my chicken coop and destroyed all my chickens, I would consider it a failure on my part, for not training better, for not making it strong enough, for leaving the door open, and not a failure on the dog's part.

 

[starsevol]

I hope he didn't do it.....but even if he did please think about this.....your dog loves you. You are the only family he has known. All he wants to do, lives to do, is to please you. Please don't doom him.......