Is this an ISA brown?

[aoxa]

That's interesting, because that's what I thought, then someone on BYC vehemently said I was wrong, and I shrugged and went with it. I always thought that Production Red meant RIRs that are bred for egg production rather than type, and were what most hatcheries sold.

 
But since I got called out for saying so, I changed what I told people. I'd very much like to know which is right! In the mean time, I'll shut up over here.

I also thought the same thing until I posted a question in the breeds genetics and show thread. So I'm not trying to make you feel stupid at all. It was just two months ago that I thought the same thing.

Production Reds are not sexable by colour at hatching. Boys are the same as girls in that factor. Red Sex Links are sexed by colour. The female is a sandy colour, and sometimes has stripes down the back. The males are yellow.

Here is the difference between male and female RSL.

Production reds are crossed, but do look closer to the RIR

 

[devora]

So the term 'production red' is like an easter egger in that the bird will have certain qualities (in this case, red and good layer) but it's a mutt? Man, this is so confusing. These breeds pure, right?:

1. ISA
2. RIR
3. New Hampshire Red

 

[Fred's Hens]

So the term 'production red' is like an easter egger in that the bird will have certain qualities (in this case, red and good layer) but it's a mutt? Man, this is so confusing. These breeds pure, right?:

1. ISA
2. RIR
3. New Hampshire Red

RIR is a pure breed, although they are truly rare. See the Heritage RIR thread here on BYC.
New Hampshire, (no red) is also a truly rare breed. See Heritage NH thread here too.

In both cases, hatcheries sell birds that "represent" those breeds, or are kind of, sort of, like the breed. These are not bred to the standards for the breed and would be overwhelmingly disqualified at any poultry show. They are fine enough birds for those who simply want an inexpensive representational bird.

Finally, the ISA Brown. No, this is not "pure bred". It isn't even a breed. It is a patented, intentional mix, mutt, blend of birds used to produce a sexed at hatch, commercial brown egg layer. See ISA/Hendrix Poultry Genetics website.

 

[aoxa]

RIR is a pure breed, although they are truly rare.  See the Heritage RIR thread here on BYC.
New Hampshire, (no red) is also a truly rare breed.  See Heritage NH thread here too.

In both cases, hatcheries sell birds that "represent" those breeds, or are kind of, sort of, like the breed.  These are not bred to the standards for the breed and would be overwhelmingly disqualified at any poultry show.  They are fine enough birds for those who simply want an inexpensive representational bird.

Finally, the ISA Brown.  No, this is not "pure bred".  It isn't even a breed.  It is a patented, intentional mix, mutt, blend of birds used to produce a sexed at hatch, commercial brown egg layer.  See ISA/Hendrix Poultry Genetics website. 

Well said Fred's Hens! Can always count on you for some insight!

 

[WalkingOnSunshine]

Thanks to everyone for clearing up my misunderstanding! I appreciate you guys!

 

[devora]

I know! I come in ignorance and leave...well, a little smarter. Thank you Fred's Hens, thank you!

 

[Debbz]

A red sex link is a first gen cross of red/gold rooster over a silver (white) hen. The commercial hen houses demand millions, yes, 100s of millions such birds to supply the world wide demand for brown eggs, and the red/gold/brown sex link is their bird of choice, pretty much, because it can effectively lay 300 eggs it's first laying year. ISA is just one of the many strains, types, mixes that are made. It has a long reputation and a nice label, so it is natural for folks to desire them. Kind of like saying Kleenex for tissue, or Saran Wrap for plastic wrap.

The fact is that none of these strains/mixes are a proper breed with a proper name. There are no police issuing tickets on such matters. LOL

I understood that Isa Browns can only be called that if they are supplied under contract with the company that patented that cross? In Australia, birds of the same cross as Isa Browns which are not sold under some contract deal are called Hylines, and your Red Sex Links sound like a similar thing to Hylines. All probably the same cross using different names.

In any case they are lovely birds and I almost feel some umbrage for them at your calling them mutts! Who can complain about chooks that have each laid me an egg every single day since they started laying recently, and which are hardier than some of the fancier birds? And how much nicer for them to live happily in a home backyard with me as their attentive servant, rather than the confines of the commercial battery production cage they were bred for. It seems like a win for them and me both.

And by the way, yes mine have 'proper names' - Brownie, Lucy, Lucky and Earlybird.

 

[Fred's Hens]

ISA and Hyline are totally two different and competing genetics poultry companies. There are a dozen top genetics companies that dominate the world poultry market selling hatching eggs and parent stock to hatcheries around the world.

The ISA Brown is just one of the many of these super laying, commercial birds that are sex links. It was such an early success and was so widely popular that most everyone knows the name and it has been often copied.

You are correct that only licensed hatcheries have the ISA Brown. It is a patented, trade secret kind of bird, but then, so are all the rest of the commercial layers and well as the commercial broilers. Other hatcheries are supplied by other genetics corporations, while still others hatcheries, simply make their own, look alike.

As a side note, ISA, the original french company, is now a division of Hendrix, along with DeKalb, Hubbard, Bovan and a bunch of others.
Institut de Sélection Animale

 

[Debbz]

ISA and Hyline are totally two different and competing genetics poultry companies......

Ah, interesting. I tried buying Isa Browns from one place and they said no they had Hylines which were "the same thing under another name". The companies are different, but both birds are indistinguishable to me. If ISA Browns are a cross between a Rhode Island Red hen and a Rhode Island White rooster, I wonder what Hylines are?

I visited the ISA Brown website to find laying ages before buying my four from a large egg farm which had excess pullets at POL. The website is geared to providing statistics for commercial egg producers and calls information on the birds 'Product Information'. YUCK.

Thanks for the sharing that information Fred(?). It's all very interesting.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Ah, interesting. I tried buying Isa Browns from one place and they said no they had Hylines which were "the same thing under another name". The companies are different, but both birds are indistinguishable to me. If ISA Browns are a cross between a Rhode Island Red hen and a Rhode Island White rooster, I wonder what Hylines are?

I visited the ISA Brown website to find laying ages before buying my four from a large egg farm which had excess pullets at POL. The website is geared to providing statistics for commercial egg producers and calls information on the birds 'Product Information'. YUCK.

Thanks for the sharing that information Fred(?). It's all very interesting.

By "same thing" the seller meant, another Red Sex Link commercial layer, not same thing, as in the same bird. LOL

Ah, no, the various hatcheries say things like, "this is a cross between a RIR and Rhode Island White". So funny. Their are FOUR birds used, four grandparent birds used to make the parent birds, to make the final or terminal cross. These various strains that make up the grandparent birds have long ago been selectively bred for so long and so uniquely that they really are specialty strains, no longer anything we have on the streets.

Besides, the RIW is very, very rare and has a rose comb. Yet? What a shock, (he said in sarcasm), none of these birds ever show up with rose combs. It is a misdirect.