Is this gold dillute?

[nicalandia]

That is patchy red expression.

I guess Co and Cream can do that..

 

[fuzzybutt love]

So the orange isn't gold? Sorry. I got excited for a minute

My rooster's daughter, from a different blue/buff hen



2nd daughter,

 

[nicalandia]

So the orange isn't gold? Sorry. I got excited for a minute

My rooster's daughter, from a different blue/buff hen



2nd daughter, from the blue/buff hen at the beginning of the thread

well gold can come on different shade, you can have very dark mahogany hens and cream hens, they are all gold hens(s+) your golden rooster can sire gold(s+ of all shandes depending on diluters, enhancers) and silver hens(s)

 

[fuzzybutt love]

Now i'm truly confused. I am going to have to stew over all the info! Thank you for taking the time to help, i have seen you helping a bit here and there on the different threads pertaining to this! If only i could understand. I guess at this rate i should call this the "explanation for dummies" lol.

I would be happy with birds that appeared to be citron, even if they weren't the real deal. The little pale chick is growing up to have a lot of pale blue, so if he were to dillute the hen's gold i truly would have a sort of "lemon blue"

The only other roosters i have that i am considering breeding-wise are a porcelain millie, and this guy, who is even more of a genetic stew than the others! I can only guess at being part buttercup because he has a buttercup comb. (Another auction special, i get myself into these things somehow) I liked his light blue chest lacing, and the fact that even his hackles are blue and aren't showing black as blues so often do. Even his Saddle is not black, but colored! So i am guessing some restrictors at play. He does have the red wing patches though.






My original intent was to breed my EE's for the blue/red lacing or spangling, then in the future sprig for some chocolates and add them in

 

[fuzzybutt love]

no cream gene on the Self Buff birds, Only Dilute(Lemon) and/Or Champagne Blond(Cb)

well gold can come on different shade, you can have very dark mahogany hens and cream hens, they are all gold hens(s+) your golden rooster can sire gold(s+ of all shades depending on diluters, enhancers) and silver hens(s)


These are the parts that confused me, as they seem to conflict?

 

[nicalandia]

well gold can come on different shade, you can have very dark mahogany hens and cream hens, they are all gold hens(s+) your golden rooster can sire gold(s+ of all shades depending on diluters, enhancers) and silver hens(s)


These are the parts that confused me, as they seem to conflict?

can you breed more lemon looking birds? Yes, all of them will be Roosters, not hens, and if you cross that golden rooster to gold hen you will get some gold roosters also, 50% of them.. on his doughters, 50% will be gold and 50% will be silver... thats how golden works.....


now to the shade of gold.. Pheomelanin(Red pigment) can be expressed on gold as well as silver but dependant on enhancers and diluters(this applies to gold more than silver)...

Red enhancers are Mahogany(dominant) Autosomal Red(not as strong as Mahogany, it enhance the red shoulders of golden birds)and some recessive Red Enhancers found on very dark red birds like RIR(Rhode Island Reds) Mahogany also works on Silver, but only on Shoulders and Body, not as strong on hackles and saddles..

Red Diluters, are autosomal(none sex linked) recessive(needs two copies of the gene to show) Cream(also called Citroen, autosomal recessive cream).. Autosomal Dominant(only one copy dilutes the gold, but not as much as a double dose of it) Dilute(also known as Lemon, I´m Isolating this gene myself as we speak, will have it on a wildtype bird soon), Champagne Blonde(not studied enough or found on other breeds outside the original buff minorca it was isolated from by Brumbaugh and Hollander(1966) )

Silver. Silver is said to be a Strong Red Diluter, but it seems ineffective at masking the salmon colored Pheomelanic pigments on wiltype hens(silver duckwing hens have salmon breasts) and wheaten hens...

here is a scan of a genetic book





Can Silver Birds show Red? yes, Red is independant of gold or silver, BUT gold its more friendly to it


here have a visual between Silvers that dont carry any red at all and are not red enhance at all to a very Red enhanced wiltype looking silver..

let me see if I can help you here...

Clean Silver Duckwing Leghorn(no autosomal Red or Mahogany at all)


Silver Duckwing Leghorn showing Autosomal Red on its Shoulder..


Golden(S/s+) Duckwing Leghorn Showing autosomal red





Cream(recessive Cream ig and gold) Leghorn


Brown Leghorn(gold duckwing)





Dark Brown Leghonr roo(based on eb and with mahogany and other red enhancers)



Cream vs Golden(should have about the same golden tone on hackle and saddles, there are a few difference, wing bay on golden is white/silver colored, on Cream birds is cream colored)





now a Red enhanced(autosomal red and Mahogany) Silver bird as example, keep in mind the Wing Bay color.


this bird has been red enhanced but its wing bay is still silver colored... thats how you can tell a silver duckwing looking bird from a cream duckwing looking bird, salmon faverolles are wildtype wheaten and for for all intent and purposes a duckwing bird


a better Silver Duckwing Male showing the power of Mahogany and with a white/silver Wing Bay(BBR and Duckwing aswell as Crow wing are phenotype not genotype, wildytpe e+ is a genotype)

 

[Lorilyn Farms]

Wow, thanks for all the info! And the pictures to go with them.

 

[fuzzybutt love]

Thanks! very clear. So i don't have the dilute, but sounds like it will be in the US soon

 

[nicalandia]

Thanks! very clear. So i don't have the dilute, but sounds like it will be in the US soon

well golden on itself makes for a nice lemon color(only on roosters) you can breed them untill you get Cream or somebody on the USA isolates the Lemon(Di Dilute) gene from buff(I am doing just that but I´m located in Nicaragua) the Cream color already exist in the USA, Cream Light Brown Dutch bantam have them.. some people are working with the cream gene to introduce this gene on different breeds, SJarvis is doing this with Old English Games..

 

[fuzzybutt love]

Does the buff have to be a true buff and not a buff pattern? (blue buff) How would you know, by the paleness of the hen's color? Just curious, i like learning about this stuff *just in case.* I read about people trying to create the "golden" (yellow) egg in EE's, it was a big deal and there are those who apparently would pay $$$ to get one................I also know a family who ate a whole flock of yellow egg layers back in the 60's! What a shame. So i learn what i can, so that if i see something that is unique i can at least recognize it and get it into the right hands.

There are several who are working on trying to get cream/ lemon colors into d'uccles on that thread, so perhaps between everyone it will happen in the US!