Is this molting?

[sadieml]

I am certainly NOT an expert, but I agree with @rebrascora that this diet sounds like a bit too much for only 6 girls. Maybe since I have weight issues myself I over-correct with our animals, but I do try to watch everyone's diet. Also, I hate to say it, but the feed company does have a vested interest in selling you on their diet plan.

ps-I AM sure that nasty, poo-covered butt feathers are NOT a good sign.

 

[Patinas]

I agree those pics do not look like molting. My flock is in various stages of molting but they tend to lose their tail and neck feathers first. Only one hen actually lost almost all her feathers, including around the vent, but she did not have poo stuck on her.

I also agree with others that maybe the diet needs to be simplified to a commercial pellet or crumble and see if that clears it up. I'm a big fan of starter/grower with OS on the side. I give treats but in moderation. You want them to get the bulk of their nutrition from the commercial feed.

This is just my opinion and you know your flock best so go with your gut instinct on what is working and what is not.

 

[kissezmychicken]

I'm new to chickens too, ive had them only 2 years..so I know how difficult and frustrating it is when everyone says something different..its very confusing. I feed a layer and all flock crumble ( different ages get different types) but its commercial..I have to rely on them to get the nutrition correct. There are some local companies that have their own grains, better for cost too, but I don't buy it..I'm afraid it won't meet standard of poultry nutrition that the pros say they need. I do give dried worms..I think they are meal worms. They get fruits and vegetables on weekends and I do make a rice dish about twice a month with brown rice, salmon cooked and flaked and broccoli. I vary salmon with tilapia or cod..I have 50 chickens

 

[Michael Propst]

It also concerns me that you are not getting independent nutritional advice, since all these products are made by Scratch and Peck and they must be making an absolute fortune out of you!! I have concerns about mixed grain products like Scratch and Peck Layer Feed alone without all the added extras. It makes me wonder if you have been speaking to a nutritionist or a sales rep! I have commented recently on quite a few threads where birds on a similar mixed grain feed have suffered prolapse and other serious ailments and I genuinely believe their diet is the issue

Thanks so much for your input and opinions. I do admit before I truely understood difference my girls diet was not very good. I have changed all of that over the past 6 weeks.

I am fortunate to have a local Avian Vet,s he is the one that did the necropsy on my Buff that died from the fatty liver which did lead to a ruptured liver that took her life. I have consulted with her after that and discussed in much detail with her about my practices. Maybe more work than some people would want to deal with when feeding their flock but I have no problems putting the time into preparation. So my feeding routine is not just coming from Scratch and Peck. When dealing with Scratch and Peck I have been going through a customer service rep but all of my difficult questions have been referred to the staff nutritional for response. As far as the feedback provided to me from Scratch and Peck, they are a reputable company and I trust that they are honest with me on their recommendation. I shared with them the diet I had been feeding prior to my Buff passing and they problems in telling me what I was doing wrong. This is a small family owned company and has a fantastic reputation in the feed market. Passing along bad information just to sell product is not a very good marketing ploy if it starts to create a reputation issues for a small company.

From what I have seen in these forums when a topic turns to a diet discussion you could ask 10 people even 10 nutritionist about dietary recommendations and receive 12 different answers. I do not believe in feeding any highly processed product to myself or my animals, I try to keep diets as natural as possible, even my dogs and cats are on a raw food diet. I have a friend that has been raising chickens now for 6 years on a grain based diet and have never had fat issues with them. Because of the size of their flock they get their feed mixed at a local grain elevator. They raise both a layer flock and meat flock and butcher about 100-150 chickens a year. I have spoke with them on feed recommendation and concerns about grain based diets and they have never seen a issue with fat packed birds in the ones they butcher every year. I know everyone has a feed preference but I prefer to stick with a whole and minimally processed feed. I know there will be those that chime in about the hens picking out only the parts of the feed they want and leaving the rest behind. I solve that by fermenting the feed for one, and when it does come to the dry feed in the gravity feeder I have never had an issue with the fines left behind or feed thrown out, actually I find they are scratching the ground and digging around the feeder to eat what has fallen from the feeder.

This is why I avoid highly processed crumble or pellets:
Purina Layena Pellets:
Ingredients: Processed Grain By-Products, Grain Products, Plant Protein Products, Calcium Carbonate, Salt, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, DL-Methionine, Tagetes (Aztec Marigold) Extract (Color), Choline Chloride, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Manganous Oxide, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K), Niacin Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Extract, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Inulin, Calcium Iodate, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Pediococcus acidilacticii Fermentation Product, Dried Bificobacterium animalis Fermentation product, Dried Lactobacillus reuteri Fermentation Product, Diatomaceous Earth.

 

[rebrascora]

I hear what you are saying and you are correct that we all have different ideas and there is no right or wrong way. Whilst I agree with some of what you are saying, there are many different circumstances in which chickens are kept that can impact on the metabolism of their diet and also not every flock member will consume the same proportion of components of a mixed diet. It sounds like your girls have ad lib access to their mixed grain layer feed as well as well as all those extras. To me that is excessive. I cannot remember if you stated as much, but a calcium supplement like oyster shell will be beneficial free choice with adding so many other things to their diet.

I wish you luck with your flock but I would monitor that girls abdomen and vent as there appears to be a problem brewing. It may be pecking at roost time since the roosts are low. Hens will squabble over the favourite spot on the roost even when there is plenty of space elsewhere but my gut feeling is that the bald area and soiled feathers have a more serious source.

 

[Michael Propst]

None of them laid very well which is hardly surprising!

Laying is one issue I am not having. Of the 6 I do have one for sure that is molting and from my reading hens typically don't lay while molting. So of the possible 5 that are laying I am getting 3-4 eggs daily and that is during a 3 week cold spell of single digit and subzero temps and very short winter days.

 

[rebrascora]

Actually I just reread your post and it looks like I may have misunderstood your feeding regime. In particular the "evening section".....
I read it that you were giving them a cup of each of the grains listed..... rather than a single cup of sprouted grains between them made up of equal measures of the grains listed.

I still think they are going to be low on calcium and there is the risk of a bird getting an unbalanced ration due to the nature of the feed. I'm not sure how fermenting the feed prevents the birds from picking out individual particles of grains. I too ferment pelleted feed and grains.

It may be that the barred rock is showing signs from the previously higher treat based diet since you only changed recently.

 

[Michael Propst]

Actually I just reread your post and it looks like I may have misunderstood your feeding regime. In particular the "evening section".....
I read it that you were giving them a cup of each of the grains listed..... rather than a single cup of sprouted grains between them made up of equal measures of the grains listed.

I still think they are going to be low on calcium and there is the risk of a bird getting an unbalanced ration due to the nature of the feed. I'm not sure how fermenting the feed prevents the birds from picking out individual particles of grains. I too ferment pelleted feed and grains.

It may be that the barred rock is showing signs from the previously higher treat based diet since you only changed recently.

You are correct it is 1 cup total (1/4 cup of each grain) for all 6 to share.
I do provide oyster shell and grit in bowls free choice. I know it is getting eaten because I have to refill the bowl every 3-4 days.

I agree that fermenting a whole grain feed will still not prevent them from picking only particular pieces. The one thing it does do is combine the fines in the mix so they don't get knocked around. I have sat and just watched my girls eat over the past 6 weeks after making the major dietary change. And I can honestly say that I have not observed them picking and choosing from either the fermented or dry feed. I know from reading that a grown hen will consume about 1/3 pound of feed a day. I haven't done the exact weight calculations but taking looking at the 2 cups of fermented I put out daily and their daily consumption of the dry feed, I honestly do not believe they are over consuming. As I mentioned egg production is great for this time of year with weeks of single digit and subzero temps and the shortened winter days, and still getting 3-4 eggs a day.

It may be that the barred rock is showing signs from the previously higher treat based diet since you only changed recently.

I actually considered that as a very probable possibility. The poor high treat diet previously has not cleared itself out. I am just truly hoping that if this is the case that there was no permanent effects of the previous diet and that over the next months of a stable consistent diet all possible lingering issues will clear up.

 

[rebrascora]

I would still be inclined to cut out the cracked corn or scratch or even both since you are giving them plenty of other treats. Those ingredients will already be in what you are feeding them and I'm inclined to believe the folks who say it is an old wives tale that these things keep them warmer.... unless you consider that laying down layers of fat, insulates them from the cold.

 

[FishMtFarm]

Corn takes longer to digest and digestion produces body heat, so their for it does make them warmer. All they need is a little on a really cold night and it takes all night for them to digest it.