Is this rabbit knocked up/ Whos my daddy?(solved #77 pg8)

[Akane]

Black is dominant. If the doe does not carry another recessive gene besides REW and is bred to a non agouti (agouti is dominant over black and you get chestnuts instead) then you will get a litter of all black. For example I have 1 blue buck and 1 chocolate doe. The result of their mix is probably going to be 50% black 50%blue since I know she carries lilac. I will not get chocolates because red colors are recessive to black. If my doe did not carry dilute i would get a litter of all blacks and I wouldn't even be breeding a black. Just a blue. Same with my chocolate buck on my broken blue doe. I will probably get 50% black, 50% blue. REW covers everything so when you mix it to anything but REW you can get anything.

 

[pbjmaker]

Pictures?
You must prove that all the babies are black

 

[Bunnylady]

Quote:
I don't understand the reasoning in this statement, because chocolate in rabbits has nothing to do with red at all. Chocolate is the result of a change in the way light acts with the eumelanin (black) granules in the hairshaft, due to a change in the structure of the granule itself.

This particular female came with a much younger male but he is grey like thumper.

Grey, as in solid grey (Blue)? Or grey with a white belly (Opal)? Blue is a dilute self Black, and Opal is a dilute Chestnut Agouti. Dilute is recessive, so unless the doe carries a dilution allele, all of the offspring from such a cross would be full color (Black or Chestnut).

What color are the kits' bellies? Because only the very tip of the hair has formed just below the skin on a newborn, and the tip of the hair on many colors is black, it isn't unusual for newborns to appear black (particularly on agouti based colors).

You can definitely rule out the Cals and the REW. REW x REW always results in REW, because the color is fully recessive. REW x Cal (Himi) results in Himi's (and possibly REW's if the Himi is carrying a REW allele), but never Black.

Fawn is a dilute, non-extension agouti. Non-extension is recessive, so once again, unless the doe carries a non-extension allele, the babies would all have normal full color (Black or Chestnut).

As to the odds of all of the babies being the same color? That depends partly on what the parents are carrying. I knew someone that bred a Magpie Harlequin buck to a couple of New Zealand White does; they were surprised when I correctly guessed that the resulting babies were all Chinchillas. It may make perfect sense, if you know what's going on behind the colors that you see. I once had a REW Holland Lop doe that I bred to a Smoke Pearl buck. The first two litters, or maybe even the first three, were all either Smoke Pearls or REW's. After at least a dozen babies, in what I think was the fourth litter, I had a couple of broken Smoke Pearls. What the hey? Did I get the right buck? I did; the doe was carrying the broken allele, she just didn't express it (being a REW). How can you tell if a white rabbit is broken?!​

 

[RabbitMage]

Basically, color genetics are awesome.

I've got a project I'm just starting with the D series and Wideband modifiers...

 

[therealsilkiechick]

i have a friend that bred 2 fawn flemish and she was huge. i thought she would have about 8-12 kits. she through us for a loop she had 1 white kit, yep that was it just 1 and a different color than both parents. it all depends on the lineage and the genetics.

 

[chickenwhisperer]

Quote:
Ill take some tomoro, its pretty chilly tonight.


Anyways, I wont pretend that I have a complete or even partial grasp of everything involved regarding genetics.

But I just dont think this should be possible.
Many people wiser than I have chimed in and I kinda understand what you are sayin about whats recessive and whats dominant, but just my own reasoning doesnt see how it could happen.

Bunnylady:
The male I was speaking of is grey with a white spot on his shoulder
To tell the truth, I did notice that the belly on baby one was lighter, but still dark.
The rest are jet black, as black as night.
Here is the grey male, he does have a lighter belly, I wouldnt say white ... but lighter.

Im totally curious about this.
I guess time will tell, maybe size and shape will help determine who the dad is.
Tho I just dont think Ill ever believe one of my males is the father.
Even if the grey male above is the father, how do you get all black babies from a white mom and grey dad . . .

 

[Akane]

I don't understand the reasoning in this statement, because chocolate in rabbits has nothing to do with red at all. Chocolate is the result of a change in the way light acts with the eumelanin (black) granules in the hairshaft, due to a change in the structure of the granule itself.

The actual color called red or the genetic letter assigned to it is something different in all animals and bb or ee animals are called something different in each species or even between breeders/breeds so it gets confusing sometimes when using color names. I've seen both B-black, b-red and E-black, e-red used in horse genetics an equal amount.​

 

[sandspoultry]

When I had Fawn Palominos and breed her to my NZ/Cal buck ALL of the kits were black. They ended up different shades of black but as little kits were all jet black.

Sharon

 

[chickenwhisperer]

Sharon, this is the best lead yet, thankyou.

My fawn colored male is a palamino(I believe)!

Id go take pics, but its freezing out and been raining for 2 days now.

 

[Bunnylady]

Quote:
Rabbit coat color isn't like paint colors. There are a bunch of different genes, found in a bunch of different locations within the rabbit's genetic code (think of them as different addresses, if that makes it easier) that influence coat color. Every rabbit will have two genes at each of these addresses, one that they inherited from the mother, one from the father. Your grey rabbit (which looks like a dilute chinchilla in the picture) is grey because it has dilution genes (dd) at the the D locus (address). Dilute is recessive to full color (D), so if the doe has only full color (DD) genes at that locus (address), she can't have dilute babies. If she has one full color and one dilute gene (Dd) then some of her babies may get a dilute gene from her, and if the father also gives them a dilute gene, they would wind up dilutes ("grey").

White happens at the C locus. It is the most recessive possibility there (there are several others). Ruby-Eyed White rabbits have genes at the A, B, D, E, V etc. loci (addresses) just like any other rabbit, you just can't see the influence of those other genes because REW (cc) shuts down the production of all pigment that would otherwise go into the hair. If you breed a REW to a rabbit that has something other than cc at that locus, you will get colors other than white. If the buck doesn't happen to have the REW gene (c), but has, say, CC, then you will not get any whites at all, no matter how many times you breed these two together.

Fawn rabbits do produce black pigment, but there is very little of it because they have dilute genes (dd) at the D address and non-extension genes (ee) at the E address. The non-extension gene is also recessive to full color (E). If the doe doesn't happen to have non extension genes, but has full-color genes (EE) at that locus, her kits will inherit the full-color gene from her, and not be a non-extension color (like fawn, orange, or tortoiseshell). They will produce normal amounts of black pigment, and be black at birth.

You have to remember that the percentages stated (25% this color, 50% that color, etc.) are based on the idea of dozens, if not hundreds of offspring from that same type of cross. It's like when you flip a coin. You know that the odds on a coin toss are 50/50, but that doesn't mean that you will automatically get a "tails" if the result of the previous toss was "heads." If you toss the coin 100 times, you will most likely get pretty close to 50 of each, but you could quite easily get a "streak" of 5 or more tosses that are all "heads," with no "tails" in between. In a sample group as small as one litter, it may be a bit surprising, but not particularly significant if all of the kits are the same color. For example, I recently bred a Broken Tort Holland Lop doe to a Blue HL Buck. The possible colors from them were: Solid Blue; Solid Black; Solid Tort; Solid Blue Tort; and Broken versions of those four colors. Their first litter was 4 Broken Blue Torts. Their second litter wasn't so uniform, in fact, it was a "pet shop litter" (no two alike)! Each litter is just one of the possibilities of that cross, and each is perfectly normal.