I've really lost a little faith in humanity tonight

[chickened]

I happen to agree with you. It makes me sick to see kids protesting school budget issues just because they love thier teacher and most have no concept of the reality of budget systems and are not learning what a budget is and fiscal responsibility but are learning about civil unrest and greed.

 

[Woodcutterron]

Quote:
That is an excellent case in point. Frankly, ANY teacher who in any way did any thing to allow that despicable situation should likely be fired outright. Those kids had virtually no concept of what they were toting those signs for . . . or against. They were doing it to gain the approval of an adult. Of course that isn't directly applicable to the situation we're talking about specifically. It seems like Dawns daughter did have some concept of it. And it sounds like under the circumstances, she made a good accounting of herself. Had it been a civics project, it sounds like she might have gotten an "A."

But she should never have even been asked to by the Mayor, particularly if the Mayor was gonna leave that child hanging out to dry before a group of hostile, rude, and generally moronic adults making comments clearly unfriendly to the cause at issue. Those people should have been gavelled down and chastised for the outbursts immediately. But they weren't, apparently. So either the Mayor or Sergeant at Arms or whoever is responsible for maintaining decorum and order in that council dropped the ball.

Hopefully the council rules in Dawn and her families favor, sounds like it might be going that way, thankfully. But it also sounds like it might end up being a bit overly restrictive. One thing that bothers me is that the chicken-keeping community does tend to settle for too little. The much celebrated "win" in Salem Oregon for 'pro-poultry' comes to mind. Sure they can keep chickens now . . . but only three hens, and only if they fork over fifty bucks a year for a permit, and only if they subject themselves to inspections, and only if they pay for those inspections themselves, and . . .

In my book, that is hardly a win. The council threw the folks a tiny bone to shut them up. Some folks would take the view that "Well at least the council gave us something" Well first of all, a city council or County commission or whatever doesn't "give us" anything.
We give it to ourselves. The elected officials are simply there to essentially "handle the paperwork."

Unfortunately, due to pandemic public apathy and people's lack of understanding of the political process, many of these officials actually believe it is them who giveth permissions, and it is them who can refuse it or "grant" it. And a willing and naive public tolerates it. Genrally, the first thing that needs to be done, particularly if a government entity seems overall "unfriendly" to what we desire . . .they need to be reminded . . or sometimes made aware of it for the first time in their political lives, that it is NOT up to them to make this decision based on their own preconceived notions, prejudices, and beliefs, real or imagined. And they more often than not don't appreciate being reminded of it. "Well too danged bad."

I've been dealing with Municipal entities for nearly three decades, on everything from Restroom zoning issues, to 2nd Amendment issues, to job performance of City managers, Police Chiefs, and even Sunday beer sales. In doing so for issues I find important, I've also been able to observe what works and what doesn't work, for other individuals and groups too. Now on issues that a council is "overall friendly" too . . .it's not too difficult. But when they are resistant . . .a whole different ball game, and that game is hardball.

Being passionate, or emotional, or nice doesn't get it done. It just doesn't. Neither do overwhelming facts and figures. If those stood out as great tools, there wouldn't even be any anti chicken ordinances. Because the facts and figures are overwhelmingly in favor of keeping them. Ya have to be a bulldog. You have to correct them. Ya have to make it clear that "No" is simply not an acceptable option, and in a firm and businesslike manner. We can't be afraid to name names of the folks interfering. When they interrupt us while speaking, you firmly tell them not to do that. These elected officials are NOT our bosses. We do not need to treat them with any more, or any less "respect" than we would treat an employee. That is not to say we don't have to show them (employees or politicians) respect . . .just not a self-subordinating, elevated level of it. We are ALL created equal, here, and sometimes politicians need to be reminded of that. More than one political figure has learned, and generall ended up quite embarrassed, that I do not tolerate a subordinating attitude from up there behind the big desk.
I digressed a bit, sorry . . .I often do that.

Back to the topic. Kids should not be part of this process. They should learn it, study it, discuss it with adults. But as spectators and students, not as participants. Frankly FAR too little emphasis is put on teaching kids just how government works and is supposed to work (two different topics, unfortunately.) What little they do learn seems to be from a liberal socialist standpoint, so it really is no wonder we have so many adults, even elected officials who simply have no idea about the mechanisms of a Democratic Republic form of government and what it's actually supposed to be.