Ivermectin Overdose?

[casportpony]

I’m confused. What sort of mites did you think were living on your chicken?

The OP wrote this in another thread:

I'll go get a pic now. They were little white mites

I keep reading about the use of Ivermectin to treat mites. I thought Ivermectin was used to combat internal parasites such as worms. (?)

I use it for lice, I do not use it for worms because it's not effective in treating anything but large roundworms, and maybe cecal worms. I have links to studies if you're interested.

 

[Shadrach]

The OP wrote this in another thread:


I use it for lice, I do not use it for worms because it's not effective in treating anything but large roundworms, and maybe cecal worms. I have links to studies if you're interested.

Yes please. I would like to read the studies although I’m very unlikely to ever use the product.
What I’m having trouble understanding is I believe Ivermectin is absorbed through the skin (?) Mites, if that is what this chicken has/had are an exterior problem. I’m uncertain about the wisdom of using a product that can be absorbed into the bloodstream to deal with mites.
As far as I know, only Northern Fowl Mite and Scaly Leg Mite live on the chicken. Both can be dealt with by less invasive products.
So, I’m wondering why the OP chose Ivermectin for this problem.

 

[casportpony]

As I understand it, pour on ivermectin is absorbed through the skin, then when the lice and mites snack on the bird it kills them. I don't use the pour on, I use the injectable or the horse paste orally for lice.

 

[casportpony]

Check out this thread:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/ivermectin-experiment.1114731/

 

[casportpony]

And this one:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/worming-studies-and-references.1053454/

 

[Shadrach]

And this one:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/worming-studies-and-references.1053454/

Nope, I’m still confused. I’ve read your experiment and the relevant study abstracts which from a quick read seem mainly to deal with internal parasites.
My first point is did this chicken have mites or lice?
It seems more probable that it had lice.
Lice can be dealt with without Invermectin, or any other drug that gets absorbed into the blood stream, or is injected into the muscle.
I’ve had a few rescue chickens here that arrived with lice infestation. These rescue hens had had their beaks ‘trimmed’ and were no longer able to pick the lice off their bodies. It also seems that they had no access to dust baths which is one way chickens rid themselves of lice. Dust bathing won’t rid them of mites though. I dusted them with louse powder and dumped them in a wood ash dust bath. Interestingly, once they had finished their quarantine period two of the roosters I had here at that time used to pick the lice off the hens who had the butchered beaks.
One of these hens had lice in her ears and around her eyes. I picked these out with plastic round end tweezers.
I knew with two in particular when they had lice because the roosters would show an unusual interest in pecking around the hens vents.
The abstracts, while interesting, seem to be centered around the idea that chickens should have zero internal parasites. Other studies suggest that it is normal for chickens to have a range of internal parasites and this only becomes a problem when there is an unusually high level of parasites. Adequate nutrition and access to a variety of foodstuffs and grit obtained during foraging is usually sufficient to keep the internal parasites at a non critical level.


I guess there is a difference in chicken care style. I am in general reluctant to give any drug that isn’t absolutely necessary and then usually only on the advice of a vet.
I don’t even use coop cleaning chemicals. I prefer to use a blow torch.

 

[casportpony]

Nope, I’m still confused. I’ve read your experiment and the relevant study abstracts which from a quick read seem mainly to deal with internal parasites.

The studies are about worms, but my experiment was to prove to people that ivermectin given orally *does* treat lice. Lots of people think that it must be given topically to treat lice and mites. Note that I have not tried treating mites with it because I haven't had mites in a long time.

Lice can be dealt with without Invermectin, or any other drug that gets absorbed into the blood stream, or is injected into the muscle.

True. If I had seen the thread by the OP I would have suggested that they use permethrin for lice or mites.

One of these hens had lice in her ears and around her eyes. I picked these out with plastic round end tweezers.

My peafowl get these and for them my preferred treatment is ivermectin just because they are way too big and strong to spray. Chickens get permethrin.

The abstracts, while interesting, seem to be centered around the idea that chickens should have zero internal parasites.

I thought these were important because when peafowl folks think their peas have gapeworms or capillary worms then they treat with ivermectin they are surprised when said peafowl die.

I guess there is a difference in chicken care style. I am in general reluctant to give any drug that isn’t absolutely necessary and then usually only on the advice of a vet.

Problem is most people aren't going to consult with vets, so I feel the need to explain what will and won't work.

I prefer to use a blow torch.

Careful, my neighbor burned down his pigeon lofts doing that. I think they lost 2500 rare birds.

 

[Shadrach]

The studies are about worms, but my experiment was to prove to people that ivermectin given orally *does* treat lice. Lots of people think that it must be given topically to treat lice and mites. Note that I have not tried treating mites with it because I haven't had mites in a long time.

True. If I had seen the thread by the OP I would have suggested that they use permethrin for lice or mites.

My peafowl get these and for them my preferred treatment is ivermectin just because they are way too big and strong to spray. Chickens get permethrin.

I thought these were important because when peafowl folks think their peas have gapeworms or capillary worms then they treat with ivermectin they are surprised when said peafowl die.

Problem is most people aren't going to consult with vets, so I feel the need to explain what will and won't work.

Careful, my neighbor burned down his pigeon lofts doing that. I think they lost 2500 rare birds.

Yup, the lack of vets prepared to deal with any fowl is disappointing. The cost involved is also a problem.
Do you have access to any of the University websites?
For someone such as yourself and your interest in fowl health problems some of the papers from students studying for a Phd might be right up your street.
Anyway, thanks for the study links. I’m looking for papers on hypercalcemia in chickens. If you should come across any please let me know.

I haven’t burnt one down yet. I go over the seams and end grain with the torch and then spray with water. Of course, not having chickens in the coop at the time helps to reduce the death rate.

 

[casportpony]

This link has lots of calcium info:
http://avianmedicine.net/wp/

 

[Shadrach]

This link has lots of calcium info:
http://avianmedicine.net/wp/

Thanks. I've looked there already. Good info in general but not what I need.