Japanese short leg lethal gene (update post 10)

[jenjscott]

I understand the short leg lethal gene of the Japanese Bantams. What I want to know is has anyone heard of it causing the lack of a toenail on the middle toe, sometimes with the whole toe being shortened? I finally got a few short leg japanese to hatch and they are missing their middle toenails, and two of them have obviously shortened toes. This looks totally related to the short leg as none of the long leg chicks have this problem. I'm guessing its in the line and I would be better off to start over. Is this a show DQ?

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

It COULD be that the breeder marked them that way. I have seen breeders take off a toenail, remove part of a toe, do toe-punching, remove the tip of the wing.

It confuses and baffles me. I mean...why not just put a band on the bird? But, ya know...

 

[jenjscott]

No, sorry i didn't explain. These were birds I hatched from shipped eggs from show stock parents.

 

[becky3086]

Humm, I haven't really looked at my Japanese toes. I believe my two BTB hens are short legged and my WTB is short legged. I'll have to look. Odd, I hope someone has an answer for you.

 

[spectrumranch]

Quote:
Toe clipping is usually clipping one of the small toes on the back of the foot; NOT clipping the front toes- which are used for walking/scratching.

Toe Punching is peircing a small hole in the web on the foot between toes. About like getting your ears peireced.

Toe clipping, Toe Punching are a way to PERMANENTLY MARK birds. Breeeders can use this to mark bloodlines or track certain birds. IF you raise wild type birds- some states REQUIRE that you remove a back toe to indentify it is a domestic bird.

Using bands are not permanent unless you use closed bands. Closed Bands are bands that are a complete solid ring. You apply closed bands-- When the bird reachs the age that you can slide the band on the leg but the bird is large enough that the band will not slide off. THen as the bird finishes growing WITH the band is around the leg and can not be removed unless you cut it off. THis method is used mostly on pigeons and cagebirds (parrots).

Toe clipping/ Punching allows people to raise a group of birds together, without having to keep each bloodline in a seperate brooder and DO NOT have to keep changing little leg bands or marking birds as they grow. You put the whole batch together.

When you put bands on small chicks they need to be closely monitored as they grow that the bands are not to tight and growing into the leg.

IF you have ever had a group of birds- they all look alike, and you have them all banded, and then 2 birds lose bands- now you do not know which is which.

But if the birds were toe puched as soon as you cacth the birds you can tell which bloodline they are from.

We use toe clipping, toe punching and leg bands (on older birds).

So some birds we toe punch/clip but once they reach adult size we band them. This way when I walk into a pen I can easily identify birds bloodline from a distance, but if anyone is missing a band- I can go back to the permanent id.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

I'm sorry, I meant to make myself more clear as well. I'm used to seeing the toenails clipped off of turkeys, broiler breeders, etc. to differentiate lineages in a test.

 

[becky3086]

Anyone know the answer to the original question? I haven't gotten a chance to look at my birds yet, I am sick today and feeding and watering them all was enough.

 

[jenjscott]

Here is a pic of one of the feet. The chicks that have it, have it bilaterally. For those of you who aren't familiar with this gene, one copy gives you a very short leg. Two copies and the chick dies before hatching. So a short x short gives 25% dead in shell, 50% short leg and 25% long leg. Short x long gives 50% short and 50% long. The short is what is required for showing.

 

[Eumeninae]

While I don't know a lot about genetics, I will tell you that one of my standard Rhode Island Red hens has the same exact "defect." She was born with no toenail on each of her middle toes, but has otherwise normal looking legs. She is also a bit runty, but she's an excellent egg-layer. She's my most aggressive chicken, but charmingly so.

I've also read about this defect on other threads with other types of chickens, so I'm thinking it might not be just related to the short-legged gene.

 

[jenjscott]

Update... I got a response from a japanese bantam breeder on another forum..Here is what he said:
"Ungual Osteodystrophy.
The literature states that the genetics of this abnormality is little understood. It can manifest itself as a missing toe nail as in your case or a mal-formed nail maybe off to one side. It can be found on other toes but is most often on the middle.
When bred to normal toe nailed birds...95% are normal...but a few (<5%) exhibited the defect.
When two birds with the defect were mated , a larger number (about 50%)showed the defect and even some showed a tendency to deform or shorten the bones in the toe.This implies hereditary, probably multiple gene, and not simple recessive." I would credit him, but not sure whether he would want me to use his name.

Oh, and it is not a DQ, but will cost some points.