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I thought it would be inspiring and most of all, FUN...to have a window in (a bird's eye view?) on a pretty kewl project...objective is for a "calm, pea combed white eggshell laying breed" and I think that is a great goal to have.
Mentioned below is the fact that rose combs usually have large wattles in conjunction with the comb type (combs and wattles, ear lobes all exchange heat for chickens but too large and facial gear can get frozen and be quite painful) AND studies have shown that pure rose combed males have reduced fertility (explains why male Wyandottes may have fertility issues) ...completely acceptable to have lowered fertility rates IF there is only one roo in your breeding pen with the hens. Not so OK if the roo is impure for rose comb (R/r"+") and you do not realize it before using him OR more roos are there than the pure for rose combed male...higher fertility rate for the non-mutation meaning you will likely end up getting single combed or impure for rose comb offspring simply because the pure rose comb male has competition regarding sperm longevity.
My goal for this project was to ultimately have a dual purpose breed leaning towards the meatie side, that has a pea comb, and lays a white eggshell egg. Why white? well it seems all the white shelled egg layers are psycho, and/or have those wretched huge single combs that freeze off. It seems that too many of the heritage breeds that used to lay white eggs don't any more because of outcrosses. Rose combed birds still have those huge wattles. I'd like a nice quiet bird. I don't want rose comb genes because of the fertility issue. Pea combs to me are the perfect comb- nice and small but not too small for hot summer weather, and nice and neat wattles and earlobes. White eggs look so nice mixed in with brown eggs! A calm, pea combed white eggshell laying breed does not exist. The closest are the Twentse, which now lay a smallish tinted egg but were supposedly white egg layers at one time. They have a walnut comb. I suppose I could just select whiteshelled layers out of the Twentse and even standard chanteclers but where's the fun doing that?
I picked Buckeye for the temperament and pea comb. Unfortunately it seems that any Buckeye I have had lays an excessively long torpedo shaped egg- very ugly and they don't fit in the carton well. There are Buckeyes that lay nice eggs but I don't have any. I picked Cornish for hard feathering, pea comb, tough eggshell and meat characteristics, and good foraging ability. The red sex link is to improve the egg quality and quantity. I will cross in the white egg layer (I think a commercial white layer would be my best bet and I hope they carry the brown eggshell inhibition gene).
I know that's a lot of outcrosses and most of the chicks will be inferior, so hard culling will be in order. This was supposedly a bucket list project but I was hoping for a bigger bucket or longer time frame :-/
I am probably not going to be hatching eggs this year, except by broodies so the breeding project is on hold or significantly cut back. At least I have some pretty hens to look at . A few chicks would be welcome if the broodies look after them, it will be easier than incubating and brooding myself.
I believe that temperament is a huge selection criterion for many breeders...we like to like birds that are not nervous or flighty; ones that seem to enjoy our company, not avoid us! Calmness and tranquility makes working amongst them and just enjoying them wonderful...good temperaments just seem to accentuate SO many nice things...like less feed consumed because everyone is calmly going about their biz, not flying up and crashing into things, getting hurt or wasting energy vibrating instead of being calm and enjoying living. I like to enter a bird pen and be acknowledged that I bring good things...not shrieks of "INTRUDER....INTRUDER ALERT!" to set the whole barnyard off with alarm calls from every bird on the place! Sheesh. Stress is the door opener to succumbing to illness...stress a bird and you weaken them which allows disease to gain a foothold. Happy and calm, just means less troubles.
White shelled eggs...had not thought about how more uncommon those seem to be becoming. Quite right now that I think of it...Minorcas and Leghorns (of the proper heritage kind...really nice birds Leghorns when you run across exhibition lines or heritage ones=--not spazzy like commercial swill eggers!) lay white eggs...White faced Spanish too...but yes, these white eggers do seem to be in decline to the host of brown, blue, green and even pink shelled layers. Neat. By having a white egg shell layer...when so many are variations of brown...I can steal the idea of having lots of hens in a pen with a roo and using the difference in egg shell colour to allow you to tell which group of hens are laying which eggs. For breeding purposes, you collect the coloured shell you want but keep the roo to hen ratio more sensible than say just a trio. I have plans for maybe getting some rose comb Brown Leghorns in summer of 2018 and will be mindful that Leghorns lay an egg shell colour I currently do not really have. Bonus!
I too am concerned that I have not had any Mediterranean type more flighty breeds of chickens. I tend to have breeds like Brahmas, Wyandottes and Chants...bigger dual purpose laid back bird breeds...the Booteds are about as flighty as I get and even there, my strain was way way calm...Millie my original hen would greet me every time I came to their pen with a great big "Hello! You bring good things for us!"
Was such a lovely ordeal to have happen...I truly miss her and her ways.
Not heard of the Twentse but think I have seen the breed word Kraienkopp before...wiki'd the name Twentse and instantly thought...Orloff or Mayal...and yup ... Malay and Leghorn combo breed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraienkopp:
Like the walnut comb (pea and rose comb...so another form of the Chantecler type comb...the cushion comb), like their looks and an "off white" egg shell and a setting breed. Nice sounding indeed. The "active" mention...perhaps flighty to a point but perhaps not if allowed to free range.
I personally do love Buckeyes...only American Breed of chook developed by a woman I believe...nice temperaments usually and other than the unique Buckeye colour pattern and pea comb...to me at least, basically a Chantecler could be one if it dropped the rose comb mutation and changed colour...bwa ha ha... Recognized in 1904...so I guess the Chant should have been a Buckeye of a different colour variety, half a pound lighter with a different comb type like Leghorns! Bwa ha ha...now I will be in trouble! LOL
I too have one, only one because I refuse to set those eggs, one torpedo egg shaped layer in the...Buff Brahma bantams. Yeh, but if the whole flock has that tubey shape...maybe some of the crossing will fix that and make them more eggy shaped. I do get what you mean that they would not fit cosy in regular egg cartons...darn it. We are not suppose to set any eggs or replicate (natural hatch) any eggs we dislike in a visual sense. Good shells, good contents...yeh, don't want to make more and more of what we personally dislike but one can work thru it I guess if not given much of an option. Just remember when you do finally get that eggy egg shape you prefer...it was hard fought and well earned...hee hee...Yee haw!
Now for the best part...some of the photos you sent me of your project in the works...and what fine happy specimens they are...lovely indeedy!
Beautiful rich red accented by a lovely hue of eumelanin
What a chunker gal...what a lovely colour combination...wink wink, nudge nudge...she's a L00KER...and that looking you back in the eye...she's not just a pretty face but a smart bird too....you ready for trouble...well are you?
What a gorgeous silhouette eh...and that stern eye like the Chants have...the brow and intensity of the girl's gaze...almost unnerving. Hee hee...I blame the Cornish blood for that!
He's a looker too...I can see the Buckeye in him. Moreso than Cornish...I see more the Corny structure and substance in the gal above.
And here is a PROUD male...I have some coloured like this in the Chants...the further generations of the Red Chants when I crossed partridge with self-buff...lovely...he looks regal and great and strutting... Protector of his flock. Nice job and what good incentive to keep working on your project with such intelligent good looking birds. Good job!
I love that rich red hue of phaeomelanin. I just read on The Coop an exert (no source posted...so unsure where it originated) that some of the colourations we are choosing and definately the slower feathering qualities for better expression of our patterns may be linked to why some breeds of show poultry (the finer ones) are not producing eggs in amounts other ones are. I guess to look good, it means we need to trade off some of our egg expectations in the heritage and show birds. The point mentioned the fact that New Hampshires were created where Rhode Island Reds were lesser...based on the fact that a deeper rich red feather was somehow linked to less egg production...a lighter red, like the NH's were made to be, increased the egg production. Hmmm...skip that deep red for a lighter shade...hmmm...I dunno. I love some of that rich red quite alot, fond of the almost black brick red we see in really finely bred RIR for keeping to the Standard. Hmmm...there seems to be a bit of tit for tat kinda trade off, for rich red over a muted tone. Heck, lookit the extreme the factory farmed versions have gone...no challenge there...in self-whites...blah. Self-white is nice too with a bright red face and head gear, yeller legs but if given one variety to choose...the white in self coloured feathers is not the best we can be in choosing a magnificent packaging concept for our feathered friends. Sigh.
Like you say above, "At least I have some pretty hens to look at" and I do have to agree these birds are beauts...the eye candy factor does weigh high up on the list...especially if one is about to get lost in generations of a work in progress where you might have to trade some of our wanna have's for realities. At the very very least...good eggs, good meat (thank heavens for that meaty Cornish influx, eh!), good lookers...I think those three components will always be enough tid bits or bread crumbs on the path way...that long winding pathway that few wanna travel. The brambly one with the pot of gold at the end...Success...goal accomplished. A breath of fresh air and congratulations to keep you with your nose to the grind stone. You ROCK, so keep plugging along, your product thus far is inspiring.
Thank you for allowing me the permission to post your photos of your work in progress and doing up the above text to explain it so we understand your plan and the implementation. What fun and what a wonderful regiment of work to be accomplishing. Sweet.
Doggone & Chicken UP!
Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada
I thought it would be inspiring and most of all, FUN...to have a window in (a bird's eye view?) on a pretty kewl project...objective is for a "calm, pea combed white eggshell laying breed" and I think that is a great goal to have.
Mentioned below is the fact that rose combs usually have large wattles in conjunction with the comb type (combs and wattles, ear lobes all exchange heat for chickens but too large and facial gear can get frozen and be quite painful) AND studies have shown that pure rose combed males have reduced fertility (explains why male Wyandottes may have fertility issues) ...completely acceptable to have lowered fertility rates IF there is only one roo in your breeding pen with the hens. Not so OK if the roo is impure for rose comb (R/r"+") and you do not realize it before using him OR more roos are there than the pure for rose combed male...higher fertility rate for the non-mutation meaning you will likely end up getting single combed or impure for rose comb offspring simply because the pure rose comb male has competition regarding sperm longevity.
My goal for this project was to ultimately have a dual purpose breed leaning towards the meatie side, that has a pea comb, and lays a white eggshell egg. Why white? well it seems all the white shelled egg layers are psycho, and/or have those wretched huge single combs that freeze off. It seems that too many of the heritage breeds that used to lay white eggs don't any more because of outcrosses. Rose combed birds still have those huge wattles. I'd like a nice quiet bird. I don't want rose comb genes because of the fertility issue. Pea combs to me are the perfect comb- nice and small but not too small for hot summer weather, and nice and neat wattles and earlobes. White eggs look so nice mixed in with brown eggs! A calm, pea combed white eggshell laying breed does not exist. The closest are the Twentse, which now lay a smallish tinted egg but were supposedly white egg layers at one time. They have a walnut comb. I suppose I could just select whiteshelled layers out of the Twentse and even standard chanteclers but where's the fun doing that?
I picked Buckeye for the temperament and pea comb. Unfortunately it seems that any Buckeye I have had lays an excessively long torpedo shaped egg- very ugly and they don't fit in the carton well. There are Buckeyes that lay nice eggs but I don't have any. I picked Cornish for hard feathering, pea comb, tough eggshell and meat characteristics, and good foraging ability. The red sex link is to improve the egg quality and quantity. I will cross in the white egg layer (I think a commercial white layer would be my best bet and I hope they carry the brown eggshell inhibition gene).
I know that's a lot of outcrosses and most of the chicks will be inferior, so hard culling will be in order. This was supposedly a bucket list project but I was hoping for a bigger bucket or longer time frame :-/
I am probably not going to be hatching eggs this year, except by broodies so the breeding project is on hold or significantly cut back. At least I have some pretty hens to look at . A few chicks would be welcome if the broodies look after them, it will be easier than incubating and brooding myself.
I believe that temperament is a huge selection criterion for many breeders...we like to like birds that are not nervous or flighty; ones that seem to enjoy our company, not avoid us! Calmness and tranquility makes working amongst them and just enjoying them wonderful...good temperaments just seem to accentuate SO many nice things...like less feed consumed because everyone is calmly going about their biz, not flying up and crashing into things, getting hurt or wasting energy vibrating instead of being calm and enjoying living. I like to enter a bird pen and be acknowledged that I bring good things...not shrieks of "INTRUDER....INTRUDER ALERT!" to set the whole barnyard off with alarm calls from every bird on the place! Sheesh. Stress is the door opener to succumbing to illness...stress a bird and you weaken them which allows disease to gain a foothold. Happy and calm, just means less troubles.
White shelled eggs...had not thought about how more uncommon those seem to be becoming. Quite right now that I think of it...Minorcas and Leghorns (of the proper heritage kind...really nice birds Leghorns when you run across exhibition lines or heritage ones=--not spazzy like commercial swill eggers!) lay white eggs...White faced Spanish too...but yes, these white eggers do seem to be in decline to the host of brown, blue, green and even pink shelled layers. Neat. By having a white egg shell layer...when so many are variations of brown...I can steal the idea of having lots of hens in a pen with a roo and using the difference in egg shell colour to allow you to tell which group of hens are laying which eggs. For breeding purposes, you collect the coloured shell you want but keep the roo to hen ratio more sensible than say just a trio. I have plans for maybe getting some rose comb Brown Leghorns in summer of 2018 and will be mindful that Leghorns lay an egg shell colour I currently do not really have. Bonus!
I too am concerned that I have not had any Mediterranean type more flighty breeds of chickens. I tend to have breeds like Brahmas, Wyandottes and Chants...bigger dual purpose laid back bird breeds...the Booteds are about as flighty as I get and even there, my strain was way way calm...Millie my original hen would greet me every time I came to their pen with a great big "Hello! You bring good things for us!"
Not heard of the Twentse but think I have seen the breed word Kraienkopp before...wiki'd the name Twentse and instantly thought...Orloff or Mayal...and yup ... Malay and Leghorn combo breed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraienkopp:
Like the walnut comb (pea and rose comb...so another form of the Chantecler type comb...the cushion comb), like their looks and an "off white" egg shell and a setting breed. Nice sounding indeed. The "active" mention...perhaps flighty to a point but perhaps not if allowed to free range.
I personally do love Buckeyes...only American Breed of chook developed by a woman I believe...nice temperaments usually and other than the unique Buckeye colour pattern and pea comb...to me at least, basically a Chantecler could be one if it dropped the rose comb mutation and changed colour...bwa ha ha... Recognized in 1904...so I guess the Chant should have been a Buckeye of a different colour variety, half a pound lighter with a different comb type like Leghorns! Bwa ha ha...now I will be in trouble! LOL
I too have one, only one because I refuse to set those eggs, one torpedo egg shaped layer in the...Buff Brahma bantams. Yeh, but if the whole flock has that tubey shape...maybe some of the crossing will fix that and make them more eggy shaped. I do get what you mean that they would not fit cosy in regular egg cartons...darn it. We are not suppose to set any eggs or replicate (natural hatch) any eggs we dislike in a visual sense. Good shells, good contents...yeh, don't want to make more and more of what we personally dislike but one can work thru it I guess if not given much of an option. Just remember when you do finally get that eggy egg shape you prefer...it was hard fought and well earned...hee hee...Yee haw!
Now for the best part...some of the photos you sent me of your project in the works...and what fine happy specimens they are...lovely indeedy!
Beautiful rich red accented by a lovely hue of eumelanin
What a chunker gal...what a lovely colour combination...wink wink, nudge nudge...she's a L00KER...and that looking you back in the eye...she's not just a pretty face but a smart bird too....you ready for trouble...well are you?
" A thunder chunkin' girl that communications what she wants, when, how much, and you better deliver...you understand!??"
What a gorgeous silhouette eh...and that stern eye like the Chants have...the brow and intensity of the girl's gaze...almost unnerving. Hee hee...I blame the Cornish blood for that!
He's a looker too...I can see the Buckeye in him. Moreso than Cornish...I see more the Corny structure and substance in the gal above.
And here is a PROUD male...I have some coloured like this in the Chants...the further generations of the Red Chants when I crossed partridge with self-buff...lovely...he looks regal and great and strutting... Protector of his flock. Nice job and what good incentive to keep working on your project with such intelligent good looking birds. Good job!
I love that rich red hue of phaeomelanin. I just read on The Coop an exert (no source posted...so unsure where it originated) that some of the colourations we are choosing and definately the slower feathering qualities for better expression of our patterns may be linked to why some breeds of show poultry (the finer ones) are not producing eggs in amounts other ones are. I guess to look good, it means we need to trade off some of our egg expectations in the heritage and show birds. The point mentioned the fact that New Hampshires were created where Rhode Island Reds were lesser...based on the fact that a deeper rich red feather was somehow linked to less egg production...a lighter red, like the NH's were made to be, increased the egg production. Hmmm...skip that deep red for a lighter shade...hmmm...I dunno. I love some of that rich red quite alot, fond of the almost black brick red we see in really finely bred RIR for keeping to the Standard. Hmmm...there seems to be a bit of tit for tat kinda trade off, for rich red over a muted tone. Heck, lookit the extreme the factory farmed versions have gone...no challenge there...in self-whites...blah. Self-white is nice too with a bright red face and head gear, yeller legs but if given one variety to choose...the white in self coloured feathers is not the best we can be in choosing a magnificent packaging concept for our feathered friends. Sigh.
Like you say above, "At least I have some pretty hens to look at" and I do have to agree these birds are beauts...the eye candy factor does weigh high up on the list...especially if one is about to get lost in generations of a work in progress where you might have to trade some of our wanna have's for realities. At the very very least...good eggs, good meat (thank heavens for that meaty Cornish influx, eh!), good lookers...I think those three components will always be enough tid bits or bread crumbs on the path way...that long winding pathway that few wanna travel. The brambly one with the pot of gold at the end...Success...goal accomplished. A breath of fresh air and congratulations to keep you with your nose to the grind stone. You ROCK, so keep plugging along, your product thus far is inspiring.
Thank you for allowing me the permission to post your photos of your work in progress and doing up the above text to explain it so we understand your plan and the implementation. What fun and what a wonderful regiment of work to be accomplishing. Sweet.
Doggone & Chicken UP!
Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada
