John Silveira vs. The Chicken Moat

[Bernard P. Fife]

I was first leaning towards the Silveira plan, then started leaning to the chicken moat, but now I think I'm back on the Silveira plan. It just makes so much sense and is a wonderful plan for someone like myself (and I'm sure most of you) who want to do things as naturally and organically as possible. If I end up going with the Silveira plan we'll have to share ideas with each other about the successes/failures of implementing it!

 

[SouthernBYChickens]

I was first leaning towards the Silveira plan, then started leaning to the chicken moat, but now I think I'm back on the Silveira plan. It just makes so much sense and is a wonderful plan for someone like myself (and I'm sure most of you) who want to do things as naturally and organically as possible. If I end up going with the Silveira plan we'll have to share ideas with each other about the successes/failures of implementing it!

Sounds good, Berney!!

 

[Pico de Gallo]

Why not initiate the Silveira plan, while leaving enough space around the perimeter for a future moat? I don't see why you couldn't do both. This'd allow you to get the garden going right away, without spending too much time digging postholes.

Or you could build the perimeter first: leaving inner space for the moat, and fence that in later. Personally, I'd refrain from constructing a full-blown inner fence...much cheaper, easier and efficient to attach wire to a fixed board (such as the backside of a raised bed) and run it diagonally up to the top of the perimeter fence, encapsulating the moat. You could then plant grapes, beans, and other viny consumables along the outer perimeter of the raised bed, which would grow over the moat and provide the chickens with a hanging garden.

 

[claudicles]

I like both systems but I think I like Silvieras system better. The one disadvantage I can see, aside from roofing, is that it makes it difficult to have permanent beds for perenials. I am not sure what your climate is like but I have rhubarb, asparagus and strawberries, as well as quite a few herbs, which are better in an established bed and take a few years to get a good crop. I'd have to have them outside this system. I also have whole bunch of plants that self seed which saves me on buying seeds and also saves labour. I just pull out the excess and feed them to the chooks. My climate also means I have winter crops so I'd need more sections to rotate to accomodate them. As for the moat, collecting manure looks like it would be pretty labour intensive, and they would pick their run clean pretty quickly but i guess it would be pretty easy just to throw any greens, weeds, thinned plants etc, over their fence from the vegie garden in to the chooks.

 

[Bernard P. Fife]

I agree, claudicles! Both are excellent concepts, and I'm thinking more and more of going with Silveira's. One aspect that I like is that I don't have to immediately invest in fencing for the garden side. I can fence and prepare the chicken's side and fence the garden in sometime at the end of fall. I grow a few cold weather veggies but can plant those elsewhere so the chickens can start cleaning the old garden up. I don't have perrenials yet, but have a spot right outside my sunporch that I plan on building a raised herb bed and perhaps a few aspargus, too. I am wanting to have an area for strawberries, but there's some space near my blueberries i'll probably use for that or possibly some space beside my garage.
Collecting sufficient manure was a concern I had as well with the chicken moat as well as them wearing down the moat to bare ground. My thought with the Silveira plan is they are dropping that wonderful manure all over the ground in next year's garden and working it into the soil for a good 10 months to a year. Then they get turned loose onto the remains of that year's garden to fertilize it for the next year. I even thought I could plant some kind of winter grass towards the end of the season in certain areas of the garden side for added measure.

I LOVE the idea of using vining plants as the wall for the moat, Pico. If I get swayed back to the chicken moat idea, that's a concept I would definitely take a look at!

 

[Mattemma]

John's idea is easier to do and cheaper. I block areas from the chickens during the spring and summer. I run plastic fencing from one end of my yard to the other and attach it to out chainlink.Then I make a spot in the plastic that I can unhook and just let the chicken in/out as needed in certain areas.

 

[joan1708]

The problem for me with Silveira's plan is there would be a 3 -4 month window of no gardening. When you take the chicks out of 1 side and put them in another, you would have to wait 3-4 months to safely use the garden. I think that would be OK in the North when there's nothing going on in the winter, but not in the south. In the south, I think the plan would work best if you set up 3 areas and rotate 2 x a year (after the summer garden is done and after the winter garden is done). That way 1/3 of the garden gets a season's rest, you always have a garden in production, and a chicken yard.

 

[claudicles]

Joan i am not sure it would be that big a problem. The usual caution to compost manure before you put it on the garden is probably not as big an issue when the chickens are scratching it in and depositing over a reasonable period. I have a couple of chicken tractors and the ground under them gets pretty liberally covered with fresh manure even though I move them a lot. I haven't seen any plant burn under them. I think people mainly get into trouble if they put a whole bag of fresh chook poo in one spot. I'd be interested to her the opinions of others though.

 

[Bernard P. Fife]

If that is an issue you may could section off the far end 3 months prior, but I've heard the same as claudicles: if it's not mass quantities of fresh poo and the chickens have been breaking it down and into the soil it should be okay. I would also till the area, which I feel would further break down and disperse the poo. I'd also like to hear others weigh in from knowledge/personal experience.

 

[Dusty Chicken]

I am doing a combination of both ideas...

My garden is in the middle of a small orchard & the entire thing is fenced off to keep the deer out.

I have taken a portable electric poultry fence to surround the garden (inside the orchard) to keep the chickens out of the garden. The poultry fence surrounds 3 sides of the garden, & keeps the chickens in the orchard. During the winter I have moved the poultry fence so it now includes most of my garden into their run / orchard area. Early this spring I will move the poultry fence back out of the garden so I can begin tilling & getting the garden ready for planting.

My garden / chicken experiment is still evolving & having a portable fence that I can adjust to keep the garden mostly safe has been great. This also gives me time to play with different setups or move the chickens to only one side of the orchard to give the grass a break.