Jungle fowl hatching thread

Don 27

Crowing
Aug 13, 2019
1,995
5,841
322
OH
I wish I knew too. In truth I do not know. I obtained them off farm in central Florida and the farmer kept redirecting my questions or otherwise ignoring me every time I asked. He sold them as junglefowl, I thought they were actually games and weren’t JF at all, but either way they were close enough to the Cracker birds I remembered and the price was reasonable I didn’t complain. Over time, different people have offered opposite opinions as to what they are. Some people, mostly of SE Asian background, opine they’re 50/50 JF. Locals around me think they’re the Florida games, although they’ve never heard if a JF as it is. I think there was a chance the farmer got nervous when I started talking about games because of the legal implications in selling them to the wrong person for the wrong reason.

I’ve been selecting them for a JF appearence, but I just as easily could have selected them for an American gamefowl appearance. My initial brood cocks all looked different than each other as if not closely related and some tracked more towards American game, others more to JF, and the subsequent generations look and act more and more junglefowl like. Recently one of my culls even started exhibiting the short crow of a JF and I suspect he’ll eclipse. I gave him away instead of killing him so I’ll be able to study him as he continues to mature.

So that they have JF in them, I have no doubt. Its a question of how much and what else is there.

I’m now if the opinion there are strong links between the Florida Cracker landrace, the Blueface strain of American gamefowl, and American game bantams. I think they all mostly came from junglefowl/American game hybrids found in the south early 1900s and are best typified by the Blueface American gamefowl of today. I’ve seen too much evidence in historic writings that indicate people thought they had domesticated JF in the South prior to the 1950s. Whether they’re right or not isn’t as important as the fact they had birds they mistook at JF. Possibly American games of the wild phenotype like some of the Hatches that got more wild-like when they reproduced independent of selection for cockfighting. Whatever those birds were, I think they fathered a few different breeds or bloodlines.

As a side note, its highly likely Blueface of today are not the actual Blueface that the original breeder created in the early 1900s, where there is a degree of evidence he never actually let the real bloodline out of his care.
Do you know How well your birds handle cold weather \ raptor pressure? It would be nice to have some aroundhere. Hawks are terrible this time of year.
 

MysteryChicken

Crossing the Road
May 31, 2018
16,637
38,014
981
East, Tawas Michigan
I wish I knew too. In truth I do not know. I obtained them off farm in central Florida and the farmer kept redirecting my questions or otherwise ignoring me every time I asked. He sold them as junglefowl, I thought they were actually games and weren’t JF at all, but either way they were close enough to the Cracker birds I remembered and the price was reasonable I didn’t complain. Over time, different people have offered opposite opinions as to what they are. Some people, mostly of SE Asian background, opine they’re 50/50 JF. Locals around me think they’re the Florida games, although they’ve never heard if a JF as it is. I think there was a chance the farmer got nervous when I started talking about games because of the legal implications in selling them to the wrong person for the wrong reason.

I’ve been selecting them for a JF appearence, but I just as easily could have selected them for an American gamefowl appearance. My initial brood cocks all looked different than each other as if not closely related and some tracked more towards American game, others more to JF, and the subsequent generations look and act more and more junglefowl like. Recently one of my culls even started exhibiting the short crow of a JF and I suspect he’ll eclipse. I gave him away instead of killing him so I’ll be able to study him as he continues to mature.

So that they have JF in them, I have no doubt. Its a question of how much and what else is there.

I’m now if the opinion there are strong links between the Florida Cracker landrace, the Blueface strain of American gamefowl, and American game bantams. I think they all mostly came from junglefowl/American game hybrids found in the south early 1900s and are best typified by the Blueface American gamefowl of today. I’ve seen too much evidence in historic writings that indicate people thought they had domesticated JF in the South prior to the 1950s. Whether they’re right or not isn’t as important as the fact they had birds they mistook at JF. Possibly American games of the wild phenotype like some of the Hatches that got more wild-like when they reproduced independent of selection for cockfighting. Whatever those birds were, I think they fathered a few different breeds or bloodlines.

As a side note, its highly likely Blueface of today are not the actual Blueface that the original breeder created in the early 1900s, where there is a degree of evidence he never actually let the real bloodline out of his care.
Sounds like we have a somewhat similar situation in knowing our birds percentages.

I got mine from a sketchy dude who was giving away 25-30, 10 week olds, for free at an animal Swap last summer. He seemed to be in a great hurry to get rid of them. He claimed he had no idea what they were. So research, is what I had to do to figure out what mine were.

My girls seem to go through Eclipse molt. In the spring/summer they become a golden, grey brown, & dark brownish grey in the winter. It sets them apart from the rest of my birds.


Forgot to mention the guy free ranged them.
 

Florida Bullfrog

Songster
May 14, 2019
490
1,017
197
North Florida
Do you know How well your birds handle cold weather \ raptor pressure? It would be nice to have some aroundhere. Hawks are terrible this time of year.

I can write you a small novel about my birds and hawks. The first year there wasn't much to report because there were only two predation events, one involving a red shouldered hawk that grabbed a hen that was distracted by me throwing her scratch but it let go and she was fine. The other was a hen that disappeared the day before that I suspect the red-shoulder got but I have no direct evidence of.

This year I had a hellacious ride with the local hawks and learned a lot. So did the chickens. In total, both this year and last year, I lost 4 adults to birds of prey and many chicks. Which isn't bad considering my adult flock has more than quadrupled in size with more chicks growing out. Here's what I observed:

1. Large hawks are too slow and clumsy to catch them. It takes small, nimble hawks and it takes an individual hawk several weeks to learn how to catch the birds.

2. During the time it takes the hawk to learn how to catch the birds, the birds also learn better how to avoid the hawk.

3. My local pair of red-shouldered hawks take chicks and sub adults on occasion but they're not efficient at it. I'd guess they've taken a couple of dozen over the past year. Considering each hen produces about a dozen chicks ever time she sits and they sit 2-4 times a year, I can absorb those losses. I consider the red-shouldered hawk pair my cull team. A chicken they can catch needs to be gone.

4. The only hawk that every really got good at catching the JF was an individual sharp-shinned hawk. That booger would make 3-4 runs on them a day, every day, for weeks. Most days it would make contact with a hen and wouldn't be able to hold the hen. One weekend I was out working and it hit Ragnar's flock and the hen took the hawk 15 feet up in the air as she flew off with the rest of the flock and bucked the hawk off. I credit the sharp shinned for taking 2 adult hens, several sub-adults, a massive number of chicks, and possibly a stag, although I didn't find the stag until a couple weeks later and its not impossible that an owl didn't do it. I found the stag's feathers and skeleton at the base of the tree in normally roosted in. But I had so many stags that I never missed it. Its rib cage had a round hole in it as the sharp-shinned hawk made but perhaps owls make that too so I can't say for sure.

The sharp shinned hawk was quite the ninja commando. Amazing stealthy. At first I could never catch him in the act or even see him, then I think he got used to me and so I was able to watch him fly in low over the blueberry fields, disappear, then ambush one of the flocks. Unfortunately for the sharp shinned hawk, I have a gut feeling that something happened to him and he's no longer a threat.

5. I haven't had any hawks make runs on them since the sharp shinned decided to go away and never come back, until this evening, when wouldn't you know a Cooper's hawk made several passes. The Cooper's hawk is downright goofy compared to the sharp shinned. For now, its not a threat, it can't catch them unless it ups its game. And it might if it keeps trying day in and day out. But for now it can't even get close to them and it flies about as silly as a swallow-tailed kite.

6. I've noticed even my non-JF have gotten good at avoiding hawks. I think chickens learn from each other and in a manner of speaking the JF have "taught" the layers and my Liege how to be alert and quickly take cover.

Back to the sharp-shinned hawk; worst it ever did to me was kill a really good mother hen that had two sub-adult bitties, and then it came back and blinded one of the two bitties which caused it to die about a week later. That's when the sharp-shinned apparently repented of its ways and left us. The surviving bitty is still alive and lives an amazing life alone. I am thinking of catching that bitty and raising it confined until full adulthood because its such a good survivor I'd like to make more birds directly off it it.

Which leads to cold tolerance. The coldest its been here since I've had the birds and since my birds have divided into two flocks has been 20F. The flock that roosts outside mostly roosts in the open with no cover or windbreak (they roost on top of my turkey coop). They handle the cold, wind, and rain fine. On a cold morning they greet me at the porch covered in frost. No sign of frostbite or issues otherwise. The flock that roosts in the large coop are also fine. One morning early this year I did loose a pullet to what I took to be the cold where she got away from the rest of the flock but now I'm unsure. The small bitty I referenced above roosts by itself at night hiding it tall grass or under a dog house and its fine on 20F nights. So now I'd be surprised that a pullet of much larger size in a relatively warm coop couldn't make it on a cold night.

I can't speak to how they'd handle snow or constant cold. When we have a 20F night here, it may very well heat up to 60F in the day and we usually don't have nights that cold in a row. The next night very well could be in the 50s. So I can't speak to sustained cold or cold below 20F. But where they can roost in a flock and push together, they can handle the direct wind and rain fine on a cold night. They definitely don't have to be pampered under the conditions I keep them.

I can't recall any feedback from customers in the far north except that some of the guys were already experienced with Junglefowl hybrids and had already decided to keep the birds they got from me in barns during the winter.
 

Chickie friend

Songster
Aug 9, 2020
230
549
166
Central TX
Update! The chick is now about a month old! His\her comb is so red. Do I have a cockerel? :fl
IMG_2112.jpg
IMG_2115.jpg
 

Florida Bullfrog

Songster
May 14, 2019
490
1,017
197
North Florida
It looks like a cockerel to me by head shape. I can’t make out the redness in the pics but comb and waddles are looking like they’re developing. The overall appearance of a cockerel at that age is that of a rounder head profile than a pullet.
 

Don 27

Crowing
Aug 13, 2019
1,995
5,841
322
OH
I can write you a small novel about my birds and hawks. The first year there wasn't much to report because there were only two predation events, one involving a red shouldered hawk that grabbed a hen that was distracted by me throwing her scratch but it let go and she was fine. The other was a hen that disappeared the day before that I suspect the red-shoulder got but I have no direct evidence of.

This year I had a hellacious ride with the local hawks and learned a lot. So did the chickens. In total, both this year and last year, I lost 4 adults to birds of prey and many chicks. Which isn't bad considering my adult flock has more than quadrupled in size with more chicks growing out. Here's what I observed:

1. Large hawks are too slow and clumsy to catch them. It takes small, nimble hawks and it takes an individual hawk several weeks to learn how to catch the birds.

2. During the time it takes the hawk to learn how to catch the birds, the birds also learn better how to avoid the hawk.

3. My local pair of red-shouldered hawks take chicks and sub adults on occasion but they're not efficient at it. I'd guess they've taken a couple of dozen over the past year. Considering each hen produces about a dozen chicks ever time she sits and they sit 2-4 times a year, I can absorb those losses. I consider the red-shouldered hawk pair my cull team. A chicken they can catch needs to be gone.

4. The only hawk that every really got good at catching the JF was an individual sharp-shinned hawk. That booger would make 3-4 runs on them a day, every day, for weeks. Most days it would make contact with a hen and wouldn't be able to hold the hen. One weekend I was out working and it hit Ragnar's flock and the hen took the hawk 15 feet up in the air as she flew off with the rest of the flock and bucked the hawk off. I credit the sharp shinned for taking 2 adult hens, several sub-adults, a massive number of chicks, and possibly a stag, although I didn't find the stag until a couple weeks later and its not impossible that an owl didn't do it. I found the stag's feathers and skeleton at the base of the tree in normally roosted in. But I had so many stags that I never missed it. Its rib cage had a round hole in it as the sharp-shinned hawk made but perhaps owls make that too so I can't say for sure.

The sharp shinned hawk was quite the ninja commando. Amazing stealthy. At first I could never catch him in the act or even see him, then I think he got used to me and so I was able to watch him fly in low over the blueberry fields, disappear, then ambush one of the flocks. Unfortunately for the sharp shinned hawk, I have a gut feeling that something happened to him and he's no longer a threat.

5. I haven't had any hawks make runs on them since the sharp shinned decided to go away and never come back, until this evening, when wouldn't you know a Cooper's hawk made several passes. The Cooper's hawk is downright goofy compared to the sharp shinned. For now, its not a threat, it can't catch them unless it ups its game. And it might if it keeps trying day in and day out. But for now it can't even get close to them and it flies about as silly as a swallow-tailed kite.

6. I've noticed even my non-JF have gotten good at avoiding hawks. I think chickens learn from each other and in a manner of speaking the JF have "taught" the layers and my Liege how to be alert and quickly take cover.

Back to the sharp-shinned hawk; worst it ever did to me was kill a really good mother hen that had two sub-adult bitties, and then it came back and blinded one of the two bitties which caused it to die about a week later. That's when the sharp-shinned apparently repented of its ways and left us. The surviving bitty is still alive and lives an amazing life alone. I am thinking of catching that bitty and raising it confined until full adulthood because its such a good survivor I'd like to make more birds directly off it it.

Which leads to cold tolerance. The coldest its been here since I've had the birds and since my birds have divided into two flocks has been 20F. The flock that roosts outside mostly roosts in the open with no cover or windbreak (they roost on top of my turkey coop). They handle the cold, wind, and rain fine. On a cold morning they greet me at the porch covered in frost. No sign of frostbite or issues otherwise. The flock that roosts in the large coop are also fine. One morning early this year I did loose a pullet to what I took to be the cold where she got away from the rest of the flock but now I'm unsure. The small bitty I referenced above roosts by itself at night hiding it tall grass or under a dog house and its fine on 20F nights. So now I'd be surprised that a pullet of much larger size in a relatively warm coop couldn't make it on a cold night.

I can't speak to how they'd handle snow or constant cold. When we have a 20F night here, it may very well heat up to 60F in the day and we usually don't have nights that cold in a row. The next night very well could be in the 50s. So I can't speak to sustained cold or cold below 20F. But where they can roost in a flock and push together, they can handle the direct wind and rain fine on a cold night. They definitely don't have to be pampered under the conditions I keep them.

I can't recall any feedback from customers in the far north except that some of the guys were already experienced with Junglefowl hybrids and had already decided to keep the birds they got from me in barns during the winter.
I appreciate the care put into your reply . Your birds do sound like they respond to hawks better then mine. I noticed when attacked instead of taking cover my birds will freeze until they are chased by the hawk. The ability of Learning how to respond to hawks it key.


My birds experience hawk migration (spring \fall), is when the hawks seem to be very desperate for a meal and most loss occurs. Redtail and Cooper's
are them most problematic during this time.

As far as winter goes, the last couple weeks have been hard on the chickens, high of 20F this week. I have had to supplement heavier in their diet , mostly kitchen scraps and scratch grains. When the snow is thick it makes foraging nearly impossible without intervention.

My neighbors must think "there's that Crazy chicken guy snowblowing his yard. " :gig



Also My OEGBs I bought over the summer IMG_20201117_090251_kindlephoto-372370188.jpg they actually forage very well and have an easy time getting up into the trees for roost, but they are pretty much hawk candy.




My current stock: IMG_20210123_091152.jpg IMG_20210123_091432.jpg
I may cross the eggs I get from you with these , I haven't decided yet.
 

Chickie friend

Songster
Aug 9, 2020
230
549
166
Central TX
I've got more pictures! The chick is getting bigger and is definitely male. Its hard to tell in the pictures but his tail is getting a little green too. its been so cold, all the chickens have never seen snow before and are confused about why the ground is all white (it never snows here)
IMG_2497.jpg
IMG_2494.jpg
 

New posts New threads Active threads

Top Bottom