Just checked out the election results...

[Dunkopf]

This argument is just going around in circles. A previous poster suggested requiring businesses to reinvest the money they would have paid in taxes back in to their business. That would work quite well. Either that or raise taxes over a certain income to ridiculous amounts like they were during Eisenhower. That way the business reinvests instead of paying taxes.

In addition make companies producing overseas pay tariffs on any product coming in the country. The tariff should make it just as expensive to produce overseas as it does in America. Then if they are actual Americans they will bring their industry back here. If they prefer to be un American than we get more revenue to pay welfare to the workers that can't find another job. Naturally all imported goods should have a steep tariff on them. Just like in the old days when America was the worlds largest exporter of goods instead of the worlds largest importer of goods. Remember when you read reports of American production they include goods produced overseas by American corporations. So just like the cost of living and actual unemployment the reports are very skewed.

The original health care plan would have provided health care for everyone without imposing requirements on businesses. Yes we would have all paid more taxes and it would have been for the good of the whole country. I used to own a small business. We grossed about 1 million a year. It was retail sales so our bottom line was about 6% or 60k. There's no way we could have afforded to pay part of our employees health care. We had 3 employees. Even with 3 employees I still averaged around 60 hours a week in the store and another 20 at home doing paperwork. So I have some empathy for small businesses being required to provide health insurance.

If the country would have stood behind what they voted for we would have a real health care plan in place instead of the boondoggle we have now.

 

[kstaven]

The biggest problem every country faces when it comes to choices in an election is there is not a "NONE OF THE ABOVE" option. That would resolve a lot of issues.

 

[Organics North]

Quote:
True.. However, in my years, I am beginning to see that maybe we should just pick a path/strategy and stick to it for for more than 2 years at a time. IMO our impatience and demand for immediate results may be getting the best of us..


ON

 

[muddstopper]

In addition make companies producing overseas pay tariffs on any product coming in the country. The tariff should make it just as expensive to produce overseas as it does in America.

This what loses me with free trade. Clinton to great lenghts to get the free trade agreement passed, setup tax free trade zones and such for countries to bring their products into the US without all the high tariffs and import fees. Problem is, it isnt working that way on the other side of the ocean. I was at a hugh equipment auction in Florida a few years ago and was amazed at the number of foreign buyers buying used equipment and trucks. I saw trailer loads of turcks cut in half being auctioned off. I noticed that one trailer would have the back half of a truck while the other half would be on anther trailer. I couldnt figure out why someone would cut a perfectly good truck in half and sell it one peice at a time. The foreigners where buying these cut up trucks and paying the cost of a new truck. I finally asked one, why they where buying the cutup trucks instead of the complete running trucks located at the other end of the auction lot. The answer dumbfounded me, but made perfect sense. It seems that the country they where from imposes a 400% import fee on new trucks coming from the US. The import fee for parts was only a few percentage points, I forget the exact number. It was far cheaper for them to purchase a truck cut in half, since it was then considered a part and not a complete truck. I can see why GM, Chrysler, and all the other auot companies can sel a car overseas. the import fees make them way to expensive to sell them there. On the other foot, we let countries import to the US thu tax free trade zones. We should eliminate any and all such trade zones and if a country wishes to impose a 400% tariff on what we export to them, then they should have to pay a 400% tariff to import to us. Free Trade isnt working because the Government is using our tax dollars to support the trade imbalance with other nations.

Anybody want to guess how much money is given to China world bank, I forget the amount, but it made the USAToday a few months ago. Not only do we owe China trillions in borrowed debt, but we are also giving them billions thru our committment to the World Bank. Heck, Obama only worked on one peice of legislation while a US Senator and that was a $850billion give away to fight poverty in a third world nation. Not one cent of it was earmarked for the poor in the USA. We simply cant afford the current give away programs, we have poor here at home.​

 

[Organics North]

Quote:
I am not prepared to write a business plan for the US economy here on a chicken forum on this Sunday morning..

But YES... I 100% agree instead of bashing others ideas it is wise to simply propose your own... (One of the reasons I have a level of disdain for the recent approach of the Republicans.)

I would argue all business is being run through government, every aspect of our lives our, from zoning laws, to using power from the grid.

Yes I will give you the USSR was a failed approach. Cuba on the other hand? If it were not for our embargo, they would be doing much better... Even with it they have less crime, less hungery, consistent education and healthcare. It would be interesting to see some health care costs verses life span statistics for Cuba verses the USA. They may very well be ahead of us like every other first nation on earth.

Why do you not mention China in your list of countries?

Last I checked the constitution is not there to protect the wealthy and powerful from the people, but to protect the people from the tyranny of the wealthy and powerful. !!

I do not propose government take over of business, but government over site. This oversite should have the interest of the majority of our citizens in mind.. (yes that is the idea behind Democracy.)

I will argue deregulation fails, the human nature of greed for money takes over and bad things like the banking collapse happen. You can not tell me too many bad loans were traded on the market because of too much regulation or too high of corporate taxes... If that was the case why did Europe not have the same problem? (Their crash was caused by them following too close to the giant, they got caught in the wake when we fell.)

To start with what Dunkopf wrote sounds good to me.

Dunkopf: In addition make companies producing overseas pay tariffs on any product coming in the country. The tariff should make it just as expensive to produce overseas as it does in America. Then if they are actual Americans they will bring their industry back here. If they prefer to be un American than we get more revenue to pay welfare to the workers that can't find another job. Naturally all imported goods should have a steep tariff on them. Just like in the old days when America was the worlds largest exporter of goods instead of the worlds largest importer of goods. Remember when you read reports of American production they include goods produced overseas by American corporations. So just like the cost of living and actual unemployment the reports are very skewed.

I see most Euro Socialist based nations excelling and beating us at most everything. Our statistics our pitiful. I am especially alarmed with the concentration of wealth...

In my mind unregulated Capitalism has only one result: ONE and only ONE winner. Allowed to play out that is the result. A big fat monopoly. Now when one entity has that much power they will simply take over. (I do believe this may have already occurred.)

THIS is why we need get back to a Government for the people by the people!

ON​

 

[deerman]

Quote:
True.. However, in my years, I am beginning to see that maybe we should just pick a path/strategy and stick to it for for more than 2 years at a time. IMO our impatience and demand for immediate results may be getting the best of us..


ON

Well first the party in control of congress have been in control of both for 4 years, and the president will be in for at least 4 year. So myself as a voter I gave them 4 yrs not 2.

The congress are the ones voted out....and only the house they lost control of.

Reagan's party lost control of congress after his first 2 yrs....still won by a landslide at relection. He was able to work with the other party to get his idea past......yes it was the Dem. control congress that passed all those tax cuts for companies.

I think the days of the two parties working together is long gone...In those day ,they moved their family to Washington. Even became friends with each others family....not now just fly back home to their State.





I am done with this thread..... That my last 2 cents.

 

[cubalaya]

checked the results last tues. night. the tea party won. lets hope they continue to win.

 

[Q9]

Quote:
I am not prepared to write a business plan for the US economy here on a chicken forum on this Sunday morning..

But YES... I 100% agree instead of bashing others ideas it is wise to simply propose your own... (One of the reasons I have a level of disdain for the recent approach of the Republicans.)

I would argue all business is being run through government, every aspect of our lives our, from zoning laws, to using power from the grid.

Yes I will give you the USSR was a failed approach. Cuba on the other hand? If it were not for our embargo, they would be doing much better... Even with it they have less crime, less hungery, consistent education and healthcare. It would be interesting to see some health care costs verses life span statistics for Cuba verses the USA. They may very well be ahead of us like every other first nation on earth.

Why do you not mention China in your list of countries?

Last I checked the constitution is not there to protect the wealthy and powerful from the people, but to protect the people from the tyranny of the wealthy and powerful. !!

I do not propose government take over of business, but government over site. This oversite should have the interest of the majority of our citizens in mind.. (yes that is the idea behind Democracy.)

I will argue deregulation fails, the human nature of greed for money takes over and bad things like the banking collapse happen. You can not tell me too many bad loans were traded on the market because of too much regulation or too high of corporate taxes... If that was the case why did Europe not have the same problem? (Their crash was caused by them following too close to the giant, they got caught in the wake when we fell.)

To start with what Dunkopf wrote sounds good to me.

Dunkopf: In addition make companies producing overseas pay tariffs on any product coming in the country. The tariff should make it just as expensive to produce overseas as it does in America. Then if they are actual Americans they will bring their industry back here. If they prefer to be un American than we get more revenue to pay welfare to the workers that can't find another job. Naturally all imported goods should have a steep tariff on them. Just like in the old days when America was the worlds largest exporter of goods instead of the worlds largest importer of goods. Remember when you read reports of American production they include goods produced overseas by American corporations. So just like the cost of living and actual unemployment the reports are very skewed.

I see most Euro Socialist based nations excelling and beating us at most everything. Our statistics our pitiful. I am especially alarmed with the concentration of wealth...

In my mind unregulated Capitalism has only one result: ONE and only ONE winner. Allowed to play out that is the result. A big fat monopoly. Now when one entity has that much power they will simply take over. (I do believe this may have already occurred.) THIS is why we need get back to a Government for the people by the people!

ON​

And rest assured, it is in your mind only. A true monopoly, one unsupported by the State, is a fiction. However, the true monopoly, the State, forces us to pay it and can legally use force to make you comply. Why are people more terrified of businesses than governments? Businesses don't have the power to completely level cities; businesses can't march soldiers in to enforce their whims.

As for the banking crisis, there is a LOOOONG explanation; I'd have to write an entire article to explain it. I will therefore recommend you to "Meltdown" by Thomas E. Woods. Excellent, easy to understand explanation of what happened. I could also cite a number of articles, but based on the circular reasoning that seems to be quite prevalent, they would just be dismissed as extremists/nutcases/crackpots.

 

[Dunkopf]

Quote:
True.. However, in my years, I am beginning to see that maybe we should just pick a path/strategy and stick to it for for more than 2 years at a time. IMO our impatience and demand for immediate results may be getting the best of us..


ON

Well first the party in control of congress have been in control of both for 4 years, and the president will be in for at least 4 year. So myself as a voter I gave them 4 yrs not 2.

The congress are the ones voted out....and only the house they lost control of.

Reagan's party lost control of congress after his first 2 yrs....still won by a landslide at relection. He was able to work with the other party to get his idea past......yes it was the Dem. control congress that passed all those tax cuts for companies.

I think the days of the two parties working together is long gone...In those day ,they moved their family to Washington. Even became friends with each others family....not now just fly back home to their State.



I am done with this thread....it was to be about why people don't vote. That my last 2 cents.

 

[muddstopper]

Quote:
I am, the business plan is simple, stop the wasteful spending. There its done, now lets see if the giveaway party can follow it.