Just when I think I've heard it all about horses and ponies

[eggcited2]

Quote:

I grew up in central Illinois, rural farming all around us for hundreds of miles. Horses were used for both horse shows and in the fields to check out cows and even round them up. Yes there were people who were awful to their horses back then, and real true horse people hated those kind.

Stables and that kind of horses were what money people had and most of us didn't even know them or ride with them. We rode on country roads, or our trail rides were a get together at someone's farm and rode out on their land. Maybe a once or twice a year there was a professional trail ride that you hauled your horses to that had set trails, etc.

Horses were on pasture year around. With a barn that had stalls in it, for shelter. The horse was allowed to go in and out of it as they wanted to. The stalls did have doors if needed. For keeping a sick or injured horse in.

No, we did not hear about colic much back then. Now days horses seem to colic at the least little thing. Back then, you could buy your hay from several different farmers and it never bothered the horse. Now days, I am told you have to feed hay from the same place or changing hay can colic a horse. Back then you could mix up their winter grain (never fed grain or horse feed in the summer, only in the winter). If you ran out of oats or corn or sweet feed, it was ok to leave it out for a few days or week until you got to the elevator to get more. (winter feed was: oats, corn, some sweet feed, and if it got really cold you just adjusted the corn) no one ever had their horse colic from that. Yes, we did call out the vet if needed, so it was not a case of not hearing about if someones horse got sick. It was a small community and people heard if a horse got sick or injured. That was a disaster and everyone heard about it and consoled the owner.

You were the owner and rider. No one rented or leased a horse. You had full care of your horse or horses. You were an idiot if you did not take care of your horse and also not get care if ill or injured. I am not saying it never happened. My mare I had got poked in the eye by something. I noticed it right away and called out the vet. He came right out and for the next several weeks, three times a day I put into her eye, an antibiotic eye ointment. The vet came out each week to check it. It healed fine No scaring, no vision loss. When healed you could not even tell there had ever been an injury. My gelding had to be ridden in a hackamore. His previous owners left halters on their horses. (stupid stupid stupid) and he had gotten his tangled up on a harrow (field/farming equipment) and they had to torch it (cut the harrow). Charlie's lip was left scarred. Yes, they were bad horse people and the horse community hated them.

I am not saying all new things are bad. I did say that I can and do agree with some of them. I am glad that saddles fit better and are fit to the horse. And saddle pads are so good. Back then we had saddle blankets: often time a rug like you put on your floors were folded in two and that went under your saddle. The bits are better and i am thankful for that. And some other improvements of equipment, medicines, teeth care, etc. I am one of the people who has an equine dentist take care of my horse's teeth on a regular basis, I even have an equine chiropractor take care of my horse. Dropped hip, or other out of place thing can and does make a major difference.

But horses are more delicate today. And honestly, it seems as if a lot of them have the "horse" bred out of them. I see a lot of horses that just seem as if they are clueless about what to do if put into a field or pasture. I know of a horse that was moved from his barn that had daily turn out on a couple acres, and is now on 10 acres. His owner has to go out several times a day to take him to the waterer. He knows where it is, but in the larger field, he just doesn't know to go to the water to drink. He has a big stock tank for water and even a creek and pond in the field, but his owner has to take him to within a certain distance of the water before he knows to drink. That is just one of the 'delicate' things I have seen.

I am not trying to make horse people mad, I am do agree that things have improved, but I also see things that are not such improvements.

 

[welsummerchicks]

I wonder if someone put conditioner on their saddle and someone assumed it was hair spray and started telling everyone.

BECAUSE....I very often re-use spray bottles. If the spray bottle the leather conditioner came in breaks, I am no way going to go out and buy another bottle. If I've got a spray bottle with just a little bit of some other product in it, I'll wash it out and 'repurpose' it. And I am used to the wife telling the husband at a show, 'honey, honeeeey....hand me the show sheen, please? No, it's in the 'Febreeze' bottle!'

You really have to be careful about listening to what some people say.

For example, I don't believe I've ever seen any horse that looked like it had false eyelashes on.

I'm sure there is some loony somewhere that does that, but I am not so sure it is something a lot of people are doing in ANY division. If they are, I know of a lot of divisions where they don't do that.

Once a girl visited a 3 day event and ran around all over the internet telling everyone the horses were at death's door after cross country - every single one of the horses, almost killed from the horrors of cross country. They all had IV's in them to try and 'bring them back to life'.

We were all like...HUH? LIFE?

Evidently she had peeked into the stable and saw a couple horses that were getting IV fluids.

She assumed it meant all those horses were DYING.

It is actually rather common to 'jug' competition horses - get a couple bags of IV fluids and hook 'em up, one on either side. Right after their event.

This prevents them from colicking.

Why would they colic? Because they're running like mad in their competition (even a dressage horse is working very, very hard even if people don't think so), and it's very hot, and they lose a lot of fluids.

I wish I had some a couple days ago!!!! I had to haul a horse to the vet clinic and she got dehydrated - it was about a hundred degrees and she was dripping sweat. SHE colicked - yup, just from dehydration.

I wished I'd had 'em jug her before we made the return trip home!!!!!! I could have saved my horse a lot of discomfort!

If it was extremely hot, the horses over 14 or 15, some of the heavier muscled horses, the horses that had come down to Florida or Georgia from Canada or New England, or Europe (where it's rarely as hot as here), or even almost all of them if it was unusually hot, would get 'jugged' right after their event.

I talked with a vet at one point about it.

He told me that plenty of horses colic without having an impaction colic, without having, gas, a twist, without having ANYTHING AT ALL EXCEPT DEHYDRATION. He does a rectal exam(you can tell an awful lot that way), and then decides what he will try first.

There's no point in putting fluids down a stomach tube - there's no dry clog of food to try to moisten and move on, there's nothing. He generally 'floods 'em' - two bags of IV fluids, and banamine, right in the IV along with the fluids, and 'that's the end of THAT colic'.

I've seen this guy put in an IV needle. He's so good at it the horses don't even seem to notice. If the horses aren't being hurt, if it will prevent an animal the pain of a colic, I think it's a perfectly fine preventative.

 

[welsummerchicks]

No, we did not hear about colic much back then. Now days horses seem to colic at the least little thing. Back then, you could buy your hay from several different farmers and it never bothered the horse. Now days, I am told you have to feed hay from the same place or changing hay can colic a horse. Back then you could mix up their winter grain (never fed grain or horse feed in the summer, only in the winter). If you ran out of oats or corn or sweet feed, it was ok to leave it out for a few days or week until you got to the elevator to get more. (winter feed was: oats, corn, some sweet feed, and if it got really cold you just adjusted the corn) no one ever had their horse colic from that. Yes, we did call out the vet if needed, so it was not a case of not hearing about if someones horse got sick. It was a small community and people heard if a horse got sick or injured. That was a disaster and everyone heard about it and consoled the owner.

Well I was taught from the time I was tiny, and that was a long, long time ago, never to switch feed on a horse without gradually phasing it in. These were horses that played high goal polo, fox hunted - and worked very, very hard every day. The horses are fit to run for their lives, and they work very hard.

And yeah, actually, I can read you out of books that were printed 150 years ago - don't switch a horse's feed suddenly - hay or grain. 'Stable Management and Exercise'.

There is absolutely NOTHING new about the idea of not switching feed or hay suddenly.

That is a very, very old horseman's tradition and there are very, very good reasons for it. It is NOT because the horses are 'fragile' or 'different' 'in these days' - that is what certain people did, it's as simple as that.

We still mix and change over gradually.

I would not think there was any problem just not feeding the concentrates for a few days on a horse working lightly or just a family pet.

But not if the horse was working very hard and needed those calories. THat would be a concern for me. I would not want to be galloping and working real hard if the horse was not getting the food he needed to do that.

I owe it to my horse to supply enough calories for the work the horse does. If I can't move my rear and get over to the feed store before he runs out of feed, then maybe I should get a parakeet instead. If a horse is working he needs to be fed to that level of activity.

Also, we do not feed grain on days the horse has off. Why? To prevent tying up - Azoturia. And yes, that's another very old tradition - dating back hundreds of years. It used to be so common it was called 'Monday Morning Disease' because the cab horses, carriage horses, dray horses, work horses, got full rations on Sunday. They'd tie up Monday just like clockwork.

Yes, those good old fashioned, sturdy 'better in those days' horses - good old sturdy draft horses - yep. That's where the whole tradition came from. Horses have NEVER been good at handling extra carbohydrates in their diet.

I had seen a horse book published in 1267 AD that mentioned tying up and how to treat it - don't feed full rations on days off.



You were the owner and rider......

...Back then we had saddle blankets: often time a rug like you put on your floors were folded in two and that went under your saddle....

We still have saddle blankets, it's just that many people use cotton pads because they can be washed and dried quicker. I got tired of using the woven rugs because they seemed to pick up every bit of dirt and burr.

But horses are more delicate today...

You just keep repeating that! Honestly that just is not true! You're just being intolerant and criticizing people and their horses for no good reason, maybe you feel more superior if you put down what other people do and put down their animals.

Horses are no different than they were 23 years ago!!! It just is not that long ago!!!

I've got one of those 'delicate' animals and I would bet my life on her. She has saved my rear plenty of times. And so has the other one I have.

And as far as the pony, if he's 'delicate' you won't prove it my me. He was horribly abused, feet ruined, fed wrong, not cared for for years...and he is one tough little bugger who has recovered from all the ignorant treatment he got.




....his owner has to take him to within a certain distance of the water before he knows to drink. That is just one of the 'delicate' things I have seen.

That is one horse! And frankly, I seriously doubt the owner is right about what she's doing. And if it makes her happy to go over and fuss over her horse God bless her.

I am not trying to make horse people mad, I am do agree that things have improved, but I also see things that are not such improvements.

This thing that horses are so different from 23 years ago, that I just cannot agree with.

TWICE THAT LONG AGO, 46 years ago, I was riding in a riding school and the lady who ran it as about 75 years old. She had grown up on the race track. Her parents both trained race horses. THEIR parents trained race horses.

When I took lessons from that lady, I figured there was about 225 years of horse experience telling us kids how to care for, manage, ride and handle our horses. No, not just race horses. Show horses, Fox Hunters, jumpers, polo horses, cavalry horses, farm work horses, kid's horses, everything.

When she was a little kid, she would sit SIDE SADDLE on the race track horses, on a folded blanket, and ride them around the track.

She could ride ANYTHING. She played polo, fox hunted, rode the hunt races (over big timber fences), rode steeplechasers, rode eventing, dressage, and drove and trained carriage horses. When she got older and could do less riding, she kept herself busy by founding a famous carriage driving club back east. She ran a riding school and they never had a major accident there in 30 years - and that's more than I can say for the other stables around her.

She had forgotten more than most people ever learn about horses.

And she would NEVER not gradually change feed. NEVER.

I think what is so unfair about what you're saying is that it has nothing to do with 'horses being delicate'.

It is just a different idea about how to care for horses. It's a different tradition. I'm glad you had fun riding around the farm, but don't put down people or their animals just because they have a different way of caring for their horses than you saw in your life.

Those traditions you are saying are so 'new' are not new at all. They've been around hundreds of years and some people just have a different way.

Too, some of what you're describing is just some person doing something unnecessary ior silly - you can't go and generalize and say that there is this general problem these days that people don't know how to REALLY take care of horses (meaning YOUR way, what you did when you were a kid) or that the horses are 'fragile these days' just because people are caring for them in a different way than what YOU think is right - and that YOU think is right because that's all you ever did when you were a kid. That is just really totally not fair to the people concerned or the animals trying hard to please them.

 

[Redcatcher]

Welsummerchicks pretty much summed it up. I was an apprentice farrier in the 1960's, managed a stud farm part time and rode with a vet for a short awhile, while he made farm calls. A ten year old horse back then was considered old. By the time a horse was 15, it was pretty much ready for the killers. Rarely you would even see a 30 year old horse and when you did, they looked it. Nowadays, you could be looking right at a 30 year old horse and not realize it.

I am very skeptical over the false eyelashes. Horses have long, thick eyelashes to begin with. Why would they even be needed? Black mascara has been applied show Morgans and Arabians since the early 1970's at least. It is nothing new. Overly long or light colored eyelashes have always been undesirable in the show ring and many showers will even trim them off entirely to make the eye appear larger and more wide open.

 

[Peaches Lee]

Quote:
There is a product (by Feibing maybe?) called SaddleLac that is a lacquer finish for tack. It holds in the moisture while at the same time protecting the leather from dirt and dust. It does give the leather a sheen. I've used it for years on my stock saddles and I believe it has lengthened their using life. I'm still riding a saddle I bought in '76! that I have used it on after every major tear down and oiling and feel it has added to the saddle's useful life. It's my "everyday" saddle, so it's seen a lot of use. But hairspray?!? Isn't there alcohol in hair spray? That would REALLY dry out the leather!


Rusty

Well it was during a 50 day stallion testing, the final 3 days where they owners are allowed to come and watch their horses perform under the foreign riders and their final tests. I came walking into the barn and smelled a very nice perfume-y smell, and I just thought it was an owner of a stallion. But I made it to the tack stall and seen the riding judge sprizting down a bridle with some Pantene Hair spray (ahh, that's where the smell was coming from!) So I asked her, what in the!? And she said that the British are notorious for spotless and shining tack, so one day she asked a competitor what they did, and they replied hair spray, so there she was trying it out. She is an FEI World Cup Eventer (from Germany)--so, yeah, she's been around the international block. And believe me, she could spit nails, so if you laughed at her, you'd probably end up knocked out!

 

[verity]

Quote:

I grew up in central Illinois, rural farming all around us for hundreds of miles. Horses were used for both horse shows and in the fields to check out cows and even round them up. Yes there were people who were awful to their horses back then, and real true horse people hated those kind.

Stables and that kind of horses were what money people had and most of us didn't even know them or ride with them. We rode on country roads, or our trail rides were a get together at someone's farm and rode out on their land. Maybe a once or twice a year there was a professional trail ride that you hauled your horses to that had set trails, etc.

Horses were on pasture year around. With a barn that had stalls in it, for shelter. The horse was allowed to go in and out of it as they wanted to. The stalls did have doors if needed. For keeping a sick or injured horse in.

No, we did not hear about colic much back then. Now days horses seem to colic at the least little thing. Back then, you could buy your hay from several different farmers and it never bothered the horse. Now days, I am told you have to feed hay from the same place or changing hay can colic a horse. Back then you could mix up their winter grain (never fed grain or horse feed in the summer, only in the winter). If you ran out of oats or corn or sweet feed, it was ok to leave it out for a few days or week until you got to the elevator to get more. (winter feed was: oats, corn, some sweet feed, and if it got really cold you just adjusted the corn) no one ever had their horse colic from that. Yes, we did call out the vet if needed, so it was not a case of not hearing about if someones horse got sick. It was a small community and people heard if a horse got sick or injured. That was a disaster and everyone heard about it and consoled the owner.

You were the owner and rider. No one rented or leased a horse. You had full care of your horse or horses. You were an idiot if you did not take care of your horse and also not get care if ill or injured. I am not saying it never happened. My mare I had got poked in the eye by something. I noticed it right away and called out the vet. He came right out and for the next several weeks, three times a day I put into her eye, an antibiotic eye ointment. The vet came out each week to check it. It healed fine No scaring, no vision loss. When healed you could not even tell there had ever been an injury. My gelding had to be ridden in a hackamore. His previous owners left halters on their horses. (stupid stupid stupid) and he had gotten his tangled up on a harrow (field/farming equipment) and they had to torch it (cut the harrow). Charlie's lip was left scarred. Yes, they were bad horse people and the horse community hated them.

I am not saying all new things are bad. I did say that I can and do agree with some of them. I am glad that saddles fit better and are fit to the horse. And saddle pads are so good. Back then we had saddle blankets: often time a rug like you put on your floors were folded in two and that went under your saddle. The bits are better and i am thankful for that. And some other improvements of equipment, medicines, teeth care, etc. I am one of the people who has an equine dentist take care of my horse's teeth on a regular basis, I even have an equine chiropractor take care of my horse. Dropped hip, or other out of place thing can and does make a major difference.

But horses are more delicate today. And honestly, it seems as if a lot of them have the "horse" bred out of them. I see a lot of horses that just seem as if they are clueless about what to do if put into a field or pasture. I know of a horse that was moved from his barn that had daily turn out on a couple acres, and is now on 10 acres. His owner has to go out several times a day to take him to the waterer. He knows where it is, but in the larger field, he just doesn't know to go to the water to drink. He has a big stock tank for water and even a creek and pond in the field, but his owner has to take him to within a certain distance of the water before he knows to drink. That is just one of the 'delicate' things I have seen.

I am not trying to make horse people mad, I am do agree that things have improved, but I also see things that are not such improvements.
​

It is not possible to keep from making 'horse people mad' -- this is one of those areas where the people who think they know EVERYTHING are not going to respect your opinion -- in fact, even HAVING an opinion different from theirs is 'fuel to the fire'

 

[welsummerchicks]

I don't agree with that, LOL.

Here's the thing. There have always been a number of different ways of keeping horses.

There is nothing wrong with any of these ways. To come on here and go on and on about how other people do their horses and how their horses are 'fragile' and on and on, that just is not very nice. She may carry the day here because more people here have the farm background, but that still doesn't make cutting down others and their animals right.

There is a very well established way to 'rough out' horses in a pasture 24/7. There is a very well established way to keep horses up in a barn too.

People choose the way that works for them, for what they are trying to accomplish.

If horses are out in pasture, and worked lightly now and then, just for fun, that is fine. Horses get on very well that way and there are a great many things one does not need to worry about.

If horses are kept up in a barn, then a whole new set of rules comes into play, and there are ways to make that a pleasant experience for the horse, but that takes effort and dedication. That's fine for most people, they are willing to do that. Those horses need to be taken care of in a different way, managed different, fed different. The rules change.

One way is not better than the other, both ways can be made to work very well, and both ways have existed for hundreds and hundreds of years.

If you talk to folks down on the farm they will have one idea how to manage horses. If you talk to a person who trains race horses, they do it a different way. Fox hunters, different again. Reiners, different again. Each group has worked out their way that works best for what they want to do.

One thing I will say about horse people, there sure is a lot of 'so and so does something different, so that's bad and of course my way is better'.

It isn't, it just isn't better. It's different. It's just different.

 

[Rusty Hills Farm]

...And she said that the British are notorious for spotless and shining tack, so one day she asked a competitor what they did, and they replied hair spray, so there she was trying it out. She is an FEI World Cup Eventer (from Germany)--so, yeah, she's been around the international block. And believe me, she could spit nails, so if you laughed at her, you'd probably end up knocked out!

Learn something new every day!

Rusty​

 

[eggcited2]

I am very skeptical over the false eyelashes. Horses have long, thick eyelashes to begin with. Why would they even be needed? Black mascara has been applied show Morgans and Arabians since the early 1970's at least. It is nothing new. Overly long or light colored eyelashes have always been undesirable in the show ring and many showers will even trim them off entirely to make the eye appear larger and more wide open.


NEC at Lake St. Louis is where the POA show was this past week. People were putting fake eyelashes on some of their show ponies. Supposedly it is not common with horses, but with POA's it is.

(NEC) National Equestrian Center.

 

[Rusty Hills Farm]

People choose the way that works for them, for what they are trying to accomplish.

Wellie, I really gotta agree with you here! How horses are kept varies around the country and according to what they are being used for. What is good horsekeeping in Vermont might be downright dangerous for a horse in Florida, for example. And a horse being shown indoors in a heated arena in the winter needs VERY different care and conditioning from one working cattle out on the range during that same time of year. There just is no ONE right way to keep horses that meets all the different uses they are being given now!

And I do agree that horses are not somehow more "delicate" than they were 20+ years ago. I've been watching the horse business for more than 50 years and what I see is that horses are more specialized than they were, but that doesn't mean they are "delicate". If they were somehow so frail, we would not continue to see speed records being broken, both on the track and in the arena. I think riders are more knowledgeable, too, and more intent on learning how to improve themselves and their horses. They also have a better "eye" for a good horse and are therefore more demanding of better horses, so the breeders are breeding more refinement in.

As always, JMO


Rusty​