Landrace/adaptive breeding discussion

[BlindLemonChicken]

I also breed to deaden their catch drive. I won’t have a high-octane bulldog with a true bulldog’s prey drive as a family pet.

This ended up being the reason our bulldog had to move to Canada. His prey drive extended to squeaky toddlers. I don’t believe he intended to bite but being toppled by a 100+ lb dog is unacceptable. Not to mention my pug wouldn’t submit to him and that was a recipe for disaster I still can’t believe that fat little snort-face repeatedly started fights with something four times his size or that he could get his bread loaf body airborne to do it.

 

[LaurenRitz]

Then they become flock protectors in their maturity. I think these will be the same.

I sincerely hope so. The neighbor has 3 pitbulls left. The other two are feeding trees in my yard. I don't relish killing another one, but I will if necessary.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

I sincerely hope so. The neighbor has 3 pitbulls left. The other two are feeding trees in my yard. I don't relish killing another one, but I will if necessary.

Pits are a little different than the more English types I breed. They have as much terrier in them as they do original bulldog. Ever see a terrier go ratting? Pairing the blood lust of the old-time bulldogs to terriers made a fearsome combination.

You can make a good bulldog dangerous by poor raising. You can never make a bad bulldog safe with good raising. If your neighbors have pits that cause problems, they probably always will. I group American pit bull terriers and their derivatives in with bulldogs because they carry a lot of the old time bulldog in them. But they’re really a different creature because of the terrier infusion. I understand a bulldog’s mentality better than a pit’s. Pits seem more unpredictable and veiled in their danger. I can spot a dangerous American or Old English bulldog a mile away. They come out dangerous as puppies. Pits seem to be fine until they’re not.

Added to the confusion is loose use of “pit.” There was a time that all athletic bulldogs were called “pits.” Mine would be called pits. Today we generally use “pit” to describe pit bull terriers and derivative mixes. And I do use pit in the background of mine. I also use mastiffs of various breeds. I just bury it deep behind English genes.

 

[LaurenRitz]

That's my concern. I told him when it started that they needed to be socialized and trained. Now they're six months old and he can't figure out why they don't obey him. Because you're not part of their pack. Duh.

They treat any improvements to the kennel like a challenge. I think he needs shock collars with geo-fencing.

Pitts are amazing, intelligent animals, but if they're not trained they can be a holy terror.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

That's my concern. I told him when it started that they needed to be socialized and trained. Now they're six months old and he can't figure out why they don't obey him. Because you're not part of their pack. Duh.

They treat any improvements to the kennel like a challenge. I think he needs shock collars with geo-fencing.

Pitts are amazing, intelligent animals, but if they're not trained they can be a holy terror.

Late puppyhood is a pit’s most dangerous time. Its usually older pit puppies that do child maulings. Their catch drive is coming in and their life experience and self control is lacking.

 

[LaurenRitz]

As far as I know there are no children within half a mile, but there are goats, calves, and chickens.

I carry my shotgun.

 

[Wild Iris]

Has anyone with acreage successfully created a 2nd flock with outcasts from the original flock?

Current drama:
I have three brothers who are 9 months old, half game. I keep an eye on them to make sure they never challenge the top rooster (American Game, Hatch). They sometimes spar between themselves, but it's never been serious since they were 6 weeks old.

Until yesterday. Maverick (fierce fighter at 6 wks old) and Nick (never a fighter) were going at each other. Nick submitted to Maverick and it was over. Then they fought again, and Big Red (top rooster, AG) broke them up. He went after each, and they each ran from him. I checked once more, a little later, to make sure all was peaceful, and it was.

Then, an hour or two later, I went outside and discovered Big Red standing over a dead Nick, pecking at his bloody head. Maverick was no where to be found.

I don't know which one killed Nick. Big Red had fought someone enough to be limping. The third brother (Iceman) had bloodstained feathers, but seemed fine and roosted with everyone like normal.

Late this morning, Maverick showed himself. He was very battered and being chased by both Big Red and Iceman. I shooed the other two away and got Mav into a crate. I guess he will survive, but he is in bad shape.

Maverick is a very good rooster, in my opinion. I regularly see him round up stray hens and bring them to safety when the alarm call is given. He has successfully wooed a little, low-ranking pullet. I've never seen him attempt to harass Big Red's favorite hens, or challenge Big Red in any obvious way. I wish I knew what really went down.

I'm wondering about the possibility of setting up Maverick and his girlfriend in a spot some distance away. I don't know anyone locally who would want a half-breed gamecock, and I'm afraid he will be killed if I keep him with the flock.

If he heals from his fight-wounds, it seems more useful to give him a chance at establishing his own flock. But I don't really know what I'm doing, here.

BTW: I was told by the breeder who sold me Big Red that he would not just suddenly snap and kill the other males, that I would see their fights escalating & I would notice that the younger male wasn't backing down, & that's how I would know it was time to separate them. I suspect Maverick is the instigator, somehow, but I can't read chicken behavior enough to know.

 

[Molpet]

They treat any improvements to the kennel like a challenge. I think he needs shock collars with geo-fencing.

I had good success with obedience training after they suggested a shock collar.... it took over a month of daily chicken training so he would leave the chickens alone.

 

[LaurenRitz]

They're not my dogs, I have neither the interest nor the time to work with them the way they need, and the neighbor doesn't have the stamina or the balance. He can walk short distances, but the rest of the time he's in a wheelchair or on a walker. This from the man who says he wants to run cows!

If you can't take care of animals, don't get them!

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Has anyone with acreage successfully created a 2nd flock with outcasts from the original flock?

Current drama:
I have three brothers who are 9 months old, half game. I keep an eye on them to make sure they never challenge the top rooster (American Game, Hatch). They sometimes spar between themselves, but it's never been serious since they were 6 weeks old.

Until yesterday. Maverick (fierce fighter at 6 wks old) and Nick (never a fighter) were going at each other. Nick submitted to Maverick and it was over. Then they fought again, and Big Red (top rooster, AG) broke them up. He went after each, and they each ran from him. I checked once more, a little later, to make sure all was peaceful, and it was.

Then, an hour or two later, I went outside and discovered Big Red standing over a dead Nick, pecking at his bloody head. Maverick was no where to be found.

I don't know which one killed Nick. Big Red had fought someone enough to be limping. The third brother (Iceman) had bloodstained feathers, but seemed fine and roosted with everyone like normal.

Late this morning, Maverick showed himself. He was very battered and being chased by both Big Red and Iceman. I shooed the other two away and got Mav into a crate. I guess he will survive, but he is in bad shape.

Maverick is a very good rooster, in my opinion. I regularly see him round up stray hens and bring them to safety when the alarm call is given. He has successfully wooed a little, low-ranking pullet. I've never seen him attempt to harass Big Red's favorite hens, or challenge Big Red in any obvious way. I wish I knew what really went down.

I'm wondering about the possibility of setting up Maverick and his girlfriend in a spot some distance away. I don't know anyone locally who would want a half-breed gamecock, and I'm afraid he will be killed if I keep him with the flock.

If he heals from his fight-wounds, it seems more useful to give him a chance at establishing his own flock. But I don't really know what I'm doing, here.

BTW: I was told by the breeder who sold me Big Red that he would not just suddenly snap and kill the other males, that I would see their fights escalating & I would notice that the younger male wasn't backing down, & that's how I would know it was time to separate them. I suspect Maverick is the instigator, somehow, but I can't read chicken behavior enough to know.

When I’ve tried to do it on purpose by throwing out flocks in the far flung reaches of the property, its never lasted more than a few weeks, then the flocks reintegrate at the farm yard and the roosters come to blows.

It may be happening now, now that I’m letting the flock do what it wants to. When I ran by the farm for lunch the same stag and hens were in the farmyard and the other group was still hanging around the feeder and food plot. Looking back at trail cam pictures the last few days, it seems that the same individuals can be identified in each group and they are in fact making the rounds as if they are two separate flocks.

I am thinking that my past attempts have failed because the hen chooses her preferred rooster and I cannot make a flock by just taking a rooster out of a pen and throwing it out with hens that didn’t choose to run with it. What may be happening now is some hens are preferring the mature junglefowl hybrid and others are preferring the black yard mix stag.