Landrace/adaptive breeding discussion

[Appalachickens]

My landrace survival chicken project officially launched today! I finished up the broody coop yesterday.

Then drove an hour south to get two pairs of game stags/hens. They are a Flary Eye Grey/Whitehackle mix. On the way back, I had to pull over to put a towel between the two crates because the brothers were squaring up and trying to peck each other through the bars. Once they couldn't see each other they settled down and alternated crowing the whole way home. The breeds are Irish and North Briton in origin, so I gave them Irish names. One pair, Lorcan and Clochán, are now in the little shelter.

The other pair, Bréannain and Méabh, are in the broody coop. More hens (Leghorns and Anconas) will be joining them in the next week.

When I was picking them up, the guy who bred them told me that the combs would look different once I trimmed them. I asked if that was something I'd need to do if I wasn't going to fight them. He said, "No, it's not necessary if you aren't going to fight them ... [long pause] You aren't going to fight them?" I said I was just wanting them to live in my woods so I needed wary, tough birds. Poor guy just stared at me blankly. I'm guessing he doesn't encounter people like me often.

 

[Molpet]

My landrace survival chicken project officially launched today! I finished up the broody coop yesterday.
View attachment 4303927
Then drove an hour south to get two pairs of game stags/hens. They are a Flary Eye Grey/Whitehackle mix. On the way back, I had to pull over to put a towel between the two crates because the brothers were squaring up and trying to peck each other through the bars. Once they couldn't see each other they settled down and alternated crowing the whole way home. The breeds are Irish and North Briton in origin, so I gave them Irish names. One pair, Lorcan and Clochán, are now in the little shelter.
View attachment 4303929The other pair, Bréannain and Méabh, are in the broody coop. More hens (Leghorns and Anconas) will be joining them in the next week.
View attachment 4303931
When I was picking them up, the guy who bred them told me that the combs would look different once I trimmed them. I asked if that was something I'd need to do if I wasn't going to fight them. He said, "No, it's not necessary if you aren't going to fight them ... [long pause] You aren't going to fight them?" I said I was just wanting them to live in my woods so I needed wary, tough birds. Poor guy just stared at me blankly. I'm guessing he doesn't encounter people like me often.

Here People that don't fight them tend to turn breeders in for animal abuse....around here it's not legal for chicken fighting.

 

[Appalachickens]

Here People that don't fight them tend to turn breeders in for animal abuse....around here it's not legal for chicken fighting.

It's illegal here, too, but sadly wide-spread. There was a big FBI chicken pit raid in a neighboring county and it was shut down, but they were mostly going after the gambling aspect of it. In fact, the high school football team in that county is the Fighting Cocks. And it isn't illegal to raise fighting cocks or transport them, so it's hard to prosecute. It's not unusual to see yards with a bunch of small huts containing a single rooster in each, and you know exactly what they are being raised for. I don't like it one bit - it's vicious and cruel. I like to think I just saved two from that life. But Appalachia is very libertarian. I love that you are generally left alone to do as you wish, but there is a dark side to any freedom.

 

[Molpet]

It's illegal here, too, but sadly wide-spread. There was a big FBI chicken pit raid in a neighboring county and it was shut down, but they were mostly going after the gambling aspect of it. In fact, the high school football team in that county is the Fighting Cocks. And it isn't illegal to raise fighting cocks or transport them, so it's hard to prosecute. It's not unusual to see yards with a bunch of small huts containing a single rooster in each, and you know exactly what they are being raised for. I don't like it one bit - it's vicious and cruel. I like to think I just saved two from that life. But Appalachia is very libertarian. I love that you are generally left alone to do as you wish, but there is a dark side to any freedom.

It's common for breeders to keep the cocks apart. I don't.... thinking I have meat mutts and until last year I didn't have any major problems with the 4 coops free ranging together. Last year a cockerel turning 1 decided to challenge 3 oldest roosters. The roosters ended up with broken feet and the cockerel is blind in one eye and doesn't see too well out of the other.

 

[Appalachickens]

It's common for breeders to keep the cocks apart. I don't.... thinking I have meat mutts and until last year I didn't have any major problems with the 4 coops free ranging together. Last year a cockerel turning 1 decided to challenge 3 oldest roosters. The roosters ended up with broken feet and the cockerel is blind in one eye and doesn't see too well out of the other.

Oh, bless his heart. It's not easy being a teen! And all the older ones had broken feet? Yikes!

 

[Molpet]

Oh, bless his heart. It's not easy being a teen! And all the older ones had broken feet? Yikes!

He didn't challenge his dad in the same coop but yes 3 roosters hobble aroused. They are semi retired and their sons are doing the mating.

 

[Vulpes vulpes]

It's illegal here, too, but sadly wide-spread. There was a big FBI chicken pit raid in a neighboring county and it was shut down, but they were mostly going after the gambling aspect of it. In fact, the high school football team in that county is the Fighting Cocks. And it isn't illegal to raise fighting cocks or transport them, so it's hard to prosecute. It's not unusual to see yards with a bunch of small huts containing a single rooster in each, and you know exactly what they are being raised for. I don't like it one bit - it's vicious and cruel. I like to think I just saved two from that life. But Appalachia is very libertarian. I love that you are generally left alone to do as you wish, but there is a dark side to any freedom.

This might not be the thread for this and I don't want to derail, but I've been wondering lately if there's a way to preserve the tradition of cockfighting while removing most of the cruelty of it. I agree about it being a vicious blood sport, but on the other hand many passionate handlers put a great deal of care into their birds, not to mention gamecock breeders provide crazy people like us with tough survival chickens for our projects. I have complicated feelings about it and the whole topic really challenges my worldview, but maybe guidelines and regulations to make it more humane might work better than criminalization. That philosophy's been tested with some success with other blood sports.

There's a sport called ram fighting that's enjoyed some recent popularity in the old world. It pits two rams together in a way that mimics natural circumstances; the rams spar, the loser gives up, and they're separated. No animal gets injured or is unable to escape an attacker, and the observers still get to view an exciting bout between powerful animals humanely and legally.

Maybe something similar could be applied to cockfighting: no dubbing, no gaffs, and the fight ends when the loser gives up? Presenting a legal and humane alternative might be more effective at reducing suffering than doubling down on enforcement, especially in a culture so heavily invested personal freedoms. I'm not sure though, just an idea.

 

[LaurenRitz]

It's an interesting one.

 

[Backroadlogic]

Dubbing reduces chance of injury when sparring, intentional or not. Also helps birds become more resistant to frostbite damage.

They would never allow any version of sparing in the united states to become legal. Nobody can agree on anything anymore. I seem to remember reading that it was considered more humane to gaff fight at one time because the fights were much quicker and they didn't just beat each other to a pulp with half blunt spurs.



//////Just found a nest with almost 20 eggs. My chickens mean business

 

[BlindLemonChicken]

Poor guy just stared at me blankly. I'm guessing he doesn't encounter people like me often.

Probably scared you’re going to report him or something