Langshan Thread!!!

[thorleif]

A question for you, Rodrigues. Because Blue is a result of a cross between Whites and Blacks, and the white lines very often are a result of many years White breeding, by crossing the two colors, you get a very good outcross. Are the Blues (because good outcross has happened) generally bigger than the Blacks? and Whites? Here in Europe the gene-pool is small, and Blacks (I think) in general are smaller than the Whites. I have noticet that Blue Jersey Giants often are bigger than the Blacks. I only have White Croad Langshans, and I have been sending eggs to a new breeder in Denmark. I have also got her some eggs from Blacks (9 White chicks from January and March, the Blacks has not been hatched yet). She is keen to start breeding a line of Blues, as well as breeding Whites and Blacks. She understands it is a long-term project, but she is only 30 (whereas I am twice that age), so she has the time to do it. She also has access to a German strain of Croad Langshans, both colors,so she has the perfect out-cross also for pure Whites and Blacks. As a by-note, Croad Langshans were imported to Germany from UK in the 1950's, so they are quite un-related now. I had some fairly small White hens a few years ago, but bred in a fairly small and poor-looking German-bred rooster, and size exploded the next couple of generations. This was a bit much, and some intricate questions wowen in, what do you think? another by-note: A guy over here has a strain of American Langshans, and he sais that they are basically what we call Croad Langshan, only since 60-70 years ago, there has hardly been any transAtlantic excange of birds. That means, that sometimes in the future (hopefully) somebody will be able to cross American Langshans with Croad Langshans, and the only selection they will have to do, is basically a bit difference in the lenghts of the thighs and the shanks, as you lot over there has been breeding for longer legs than us?

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

A question for you, Rodrigues. Because Blue is a result of a cross between Whites and Blacks, and the white lines very often are a result of many years White breeding, by crossing the two colors, you get a very good outcross. Are the Blues (because good outcross has happened) generally bigger than the Blacks? and Whites?

Hey thorleif! The blacks definitely have the size and conformation over the blues. They are rapidly catching up though. There are not many breeders of good quality blues. Especially any that show. A good blue simply will not beat a good black. I have only seen a handful of whites and NONE reach the size of the blacks or blues. I have not seen a white large fowl in a show hall in about 5 years.

It should be noted, that the white and black cross to produce the blues was a rare occurrence, as far as I know, blues do not result from this cross any longer. When a black is bred to a white, black offspring result. These offspring carry the white gene. I bred by blacks to my whites in order to get a better conformed bird with a more docile demeanor and larger size.

Here in Europe the gene-pool is small, and Blacks (I think) in general are smaller than the Whites. I have noticet that Blue Jersey Giants often are bigger than the Blacks. I only have White Croad Langshans, and I have been sending eggs to a new breeder in Denmark. I have also got her some eggs from Blacks (9 White chicks from January and March, the Blacks has not been hatched yet). She is keen to start breeding a line of Blues, as well as breeding Whites and Blacks. She understands it is a long-term project, but she is only 30 (whereas I am twice that age), so she has the time to do it. She also has access to a German strain of Croad Langshans, both colors,so she has the perfect out-cross also for pure Whites and Blacks. As a by-note, Croad Langshans were imported to Germany from UK in the 1950's, so they are quite un-related now. I had some fairly small White hens a few years ago, but bred in a fairly small and poor-looking German-bred rooster, and size exploded the next couple of generations. This was a bit much, and some intricate questions wowen in, what do you think?

I have noticed that when a new bird is bred into a line, the size tends to explode. It may be the infusion of new blood or simply different characteristics of that bird. I tend to think that the infusion of new blood increases the size, but it can also cause issues in lines. Two different lines can cause poor size, poor head width, large combs, poor feathering...but it can also bring about good characteristics. Culling must be liberal when you bring in new blood, otherwise you can ruin your breeding program by keeping inferior birds. (Says the person with a pure line of clean-legged Langshans...)

another by-note: A guy over here has a strain of American Langshans, and he sais that they are basically what we call Croad Langshan, only since 60-70 years ago, there has hardly been any transAtlantic excange of birds. That means, that sometimes in the future (hopefully) somebody will be able to cross American Langshans with Croad Langshans, and the only selection they will have to do, is basically a bit difference in the lenghts of the thighs and the shanks, as you lot over there has been breeding for longer legs than us?

I would tend to agree on the leg length. Looking at your whites, I would like to see more leg length, but that is just because I have a certain way that I like to breed. The standard of perfection leaves "gaps" for the judge to have leeway, or open to interpretation. I prefer longer legs...I want a large frame with long legs, otherwise the bird doesn't look "complete". I have a male with shorter legs. He has excellent type, but has shorter legs (whether that was due to environmental factors or genetics has yet to be determined). Love his type, hate his leg length.

One large difference in the Croad and the American Langshan is that MANY people claim to have Croad. This is because people are searching for the plum-colored eggs that the Croad are famed for. I refuse to sell for egg color. I do not want what happened to the Marans happen to the Langshan. The American and Croad Langshans, other than the egg color and possibly tail width do not look too entirely different from each other.

Sorry I had to answer in this format, I haven't figured out how to do it any other way. My answers/replies are in red.

I do not know what I am doing with the clean-legged Langshans. But, why not have a bit of fun with them while I have them?

 

[thorleif]

That with the egg-color is a bit confusing, I think a few people breed for that, showing eggs are quite big over here. My eggs definetly dont fit the bill, far too light. I am not sure how/when that pinky egg color became an issue, in all old litterature on the subject, Langshans are described with a brown egg, often very dark. That was the main reason for the Langshan to be one of the "building blocks" in the creation of Marans. If you have a line of clean-legged, long legged, is "Modern Langshan", or "Society Type" still in the American Standard? Look at he old standard described here, and if they fit the bill, show one or two as "Modern Langshan". That would create some stir? You can read about them here: http://openlibrary.org/works/OL13541903W/Wright's_book_of_poultry on page 279 and onwards. They were very popular many years ago, but are nearly extinct now. Only a handful of breeders has them over here, I think they died out in the US? When you open that book, click on "PDF".

 

[cherylcohen]

I thought I would add some photos of two birds that I was able to get ahold of. My male Clyde is getting lazy in his duties (who can blame him? He's a grumpy old man!), so I took Harvey up on his offer for a nice cockerel from the same bloodlines. His tail is a bit lower than I'd like, but still has a nice large frame, nice long shank and gorgeous dark eyes with a wide head.



And his gorgeous girlfriend, a splash hen that Harvey was kind enough to pick up for me! She is the first splash I have ever held of this breed. I was really excited to see her!

GORGEOUS

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

Unfortunately, the only type allowed to be shown (and win the breed) is the American Langshan (what some people say are Croad).

I've seen photos of the old Modern Langshans. I have a great foundation for it, but I do think the leg length needs to be a bit longer to fit that bill. I keep trying to pull up the book, but it keeps locking up my computer. I will use my husbands Apple when he gets back! (Poor Acer tries...)

I suppose I could show them in another variety, but I'm doubtful anything would come of it. Perhaps a few more years of breeding true and I will feel as though they are ready for a debut. I was fortunate to have a gorgeous splash pullet hatch this year as well as a blue cockerel. I lost the blue cockerel, but I am hoping that a black chick that just hatched will be the cockerel I am after!

As far as I know, the only egg shows are in local county fairs and state fairs. No actual "egg" shows. I could certainly be mistaken in that regard though!

That with the egg-color is a bit confusing, I think a few people breed for that, showing eggs are quite big over here. My eggs definetly dont fit the bill, far too light. I am not sure how/when that pinky egg color became an issue, in all old litterature on the subject, Langshans are described with a brown egg, often very dark. That was the main reason for the Langshan to be one of the "building blocks" in the creation of Marans. If you have a line of clean-legged, long legged, is "Modern Langshan", or "Society Type" still in the American Standard? Look at he old standard described here, and if they fit the bill, show one or two as "Modern Langshan". That would create some stir? You can read about them here: http://openlibrary.org/works/OL13541903W/Wright's_book_of_poultry on page 279 and onwards. They were very popular many years ago, but are nearly extinct now. Only a handful of breeders has them over here, I think they died out in the US? When you open that book, click on "PDF".

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

Thank you Cheryl! She is a pretty little thing. Love her disposition and her size! Can't wait to see what she'll produce!

I'm debating on selling some blue and black hatching eggs. I'm done for the year, but I'm still uncertain if I should or not as the male I have hasn't yet been tested to see what he will produce with my birds. They are all from the same line, just bred separately. I just hate to sell eggs when I don't know what the outcross will deliver.

 

[mrheinz77]

Mikaela,

If you want a test hatcher I'd be more than happy to do it. PM if interested.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

mrheinz, I'm afraid the tails will be a bit low. I'm very particular in how my birds look and how my line is represented. I don't want any birds of inferior quality from my stock infusing another line and possibly causing problems. After next year, when I get a good hatch from this hen and new cockerel. I will be giving you a call. I want to make sure it won't completely ruin the line.

I'm a bit hard on my own birds. Sometimes I think a little too hard.


For a bit of fun, here is a side project of mine. The pullet is a little young to judge on her type, but I'm already not liking her back as much as I should, but that could come with age.


Here are some a little bit older. I like their type already and their foot feathering and leg length are very nice already.

 

[msladyhawke]

Here are some a little bit older. I like their type already and their foot feathering and leg length are very nice already.

What pretty girls! The blue one on the right is Gorgeous!

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

haha! Thanks msladyhawke! I have you hooked on blues now! The black has an EXCELLENT tail that I love. I can't wait to see how she finishes. The blue may be a keeper, or may be a seller. Not really sure yet. So far, her eye color and foot feathering and lacing have me hooked. If her back doesn't get better though, she is a seller.