Layena® SunFresh® Recipe

[technodoll]

This is a never-ending circle: the label on the bag says to look on the company website for the ingredients, and if you look closely at the company product link (that you posted), there is NO ingredient list, only bla-bla

I really want to know WHAT is in that food!

Why is it such a secret? Is this even legal? Why don't they post a list of ingredients on the bag's label??

In other words: what are they hiding!!

 

[schellie69]

Quote:
I saw that brand also but here it is twice what my regular feed is, and my chickens seem to do fine with the brand I have them on now, I did switch the layer feed to a brand carried at another farm store, due, to price, but it seems to better quality and my girls are eating it, and I have seen no change in their egg production or appearance. I do give them scratch as a treat and I throw wild bird seed in the yard when they free range, give snack once in a while but only enough so that its a treat and they don't fill up on it, I offer pumpkin I have yogurt but have not given them any yet, i also fried up some eggs and mixed in ground egg shells in it, they loved it so that is how I give them extra calcium I am not sure paying twice the money is worth something if I then would have to supplement it anyway.

 

[Big C]

Quote:
There are many benefits to feeding your poultry some source of animal proteins. The biggest one is the various amino acids. Poultry are omnivores, that means, they eat pretty much everything, meat, vegetables, all sorts of things. And there are some amino acids that are only available in natural sources from actual animal proteins: lysine and methionine are the two most important to poultry (for humans, I will not that we are unable to synthesize carnatine without sources of animal protein, so vegetarians are encouraged to take a carnatine suppliment.) But I digress.

Most "vegetarian" poultry feeds suppliment with synthetic forms of lysine and methionine. This has been the subject of threads here before, and some people have posted links to studies which "prove" that there is no difference between the natural sources and the synthetic sources. All I can go by is my own personal experience. And in my experience, when I feed my chickens feed with no animal proteins, I see a negative affect, primarily in the feather quality, but also in overall health and in the amount of feather picking.

When I first started out here in KY with poultry, I was buying Southern States feed. It had no animal proteins. My birds picked at each other a lot, some to the point where I had to cull a couple (they had more than adequate space, so that wasn't it.) Based on some research, and after a very long phone call with a feed expert at the Southern States headquarters, I changed their feed and added in animal proteins. Nothing else changed, yet the feather picking went away and hasn't come back. So despite the "expert studies" saying that synthetic sources of amino acids are sufficient for poultry health, I will never feed my birds a vegetarian-only diet. Of course, everyone's situation is different, and should anyone else choose to do so, I would not say they were doing something wrong, I just know what I do is right for me and my birds.

Some feeds that contain animal protein include: Tiz Wiz, Kent (my personal favorite, but no longer carried locally), and Buckley. Dumor used to, but I don't think it does any more, and several years ago they changed the Dumor formulation, putting something into it (molasses?) that made it much darker, smellier, and made my chickens feces smell horrible. So I don't use it except as a last resort.

I am currently using Purina mixed with Buckley, am waiting for the Buckley rep in OH to send me a shipment of their "show bird" feed for me to try. I love my TSC store, but I won't use Purina exclusively, as it is vegetarian only (and I am pretty sure it has soy in it, don't know how they'd get the protein levels right without it.)

You can add animal protein into your feed in any number of ways. Some people use fish or fish meal, but do so with care, as the taste of the eggs can be impacted if you use too much (been there, done that!)

You can buy cheap ground beef, fry it, and feed it to your birds. You can hard boil any extra eggs you have, mash them up and feed them to the birds with the shells included (they love hard boiled eggs!), or you can do what I and others do, and feed dry cat food in small amounts to your birds. I know there are some people who really hate that last option, and there are some issues with it that I will not argue. But it's cheap, it's easy, and it works really well. My birds thrive with it, and I find it works for us.

Hope that answers your questions.

Thank you for your reply.
Yes fowl are ominvores.

Never had the pecking problem you mentioned. We expand each flocks area exponentially from what is recomended here as a per sq ft area per bird as they grow. As well, they pasture over several fenced electrified acres. Could they not get "lysine and methionine are the two most important to poultry" naturally? Ours seem to.

We feed in this manner:
Layena in exclusive feeders.
Whole corn in exclusive feeders
Scratch mixed with black oil sunflower at 60-40 mix about 1.5 hrs before roost
Ground eggs with shell ( if we have any)

Layena is the last feeder(s) refilled. Whole corn is the first. We use the scratch mix to call every one home so to speak.

Our pastures have been grown organically/naturally since 1990. Several varieties of local to our area grasses grown year round and allowed to seed out. Fertilized with 4 applications of humates (applied in liquid form). Every large rain we get you can see the below ground earthworms rise to the surface and create their mounds. As well there are several varieties of ants along with all the insects.

Did the Dumor thing and won't again.

Our coops are ventilated 24/7 no matter the weather. No artificial light.


This is our flock(s) raising formula. All are healthy and thrive.

To answer the list of ingerdients for Layena:

Crude Protein (MIN): 16.0000%
Lysine (MIN): .5500%
Methioine (MIN): .2500%
Crude Fat MIN): 2.500%
Crude Fiber (MAX): 7.000%
Calcium (MIN): 3.2500%
Calcium (MAX): 4.2500%
Phosphorus (MIN): .5000%
Salt (MIN): .3000%
Salt (MAX): .8000%
Manganese (MIN): 175.0000 PPM
Vitamin A (MIN): 3000,00 IU/LB
Vitamin E (MIN): 10.00 IU/LB

Minimum
Maximum

Would be the percentage of error per bag in processing

PPM= parts per million

IU/LB International units per pound

Ruminant meat and bone meal free

Ingredients from:
Grain products, processed grain products, plant protein products, calcium carbonate, molasses products, monocalcium phosphate, dicalcium phosphate, salt, tagetes extract, choline chloride, vitamine e supplement, riboflavin supplement, calcium pantohenate, manganous oxide, vitamin d3 supplement, vitamin b-12 supplement, vitamin a supplement, niacin supplement, dl-methionine, menadione dimethylpyimidinol bisulfite (source of vitamin k), folic acid, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite.

As omnivores, chickens will eat what they lack in their diet no matter the source.

 

[DawnSuiter]

there is no soybean oil in Layena?

 

[technodoll]

ngredients from:
Grain products, processed grain products, plant protein products, calcium carbonate, molasses products, monocalcium phosphate, dicalcium phosphate, salt, tagetes extract, choline chloride, vitamine e supplement, riboflavin supplement, calcium pantohenate, manganous oxide, vitamin d3 supplement, vitamin b-12 supplement, vitamin a supplement, niacin supplement, dl-methionine, menadione dimethylpyimidinol bisulfite (source of vitamin k), folic acid, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite.

I don't understand how this can legally constitute a list of INGREDIENTS as it says NOTHING:

what grains are used?
what processed grains are used?
which plant proteins?

OK we have the supplements but that makes up a very minor part of the whole, the bulk is WHAT?

corn? wheat? millet? soy? oats?

You have to question why they can't spell out what they use, and in which order by weight. Normally companies do this when they buy bulk ingredients as per market availability, ie "which truck of ingredients is cheap today" - so I doubt very much this recipe is stable, by any means. Hence, you cannot guarantee the protein % or anything else.

I loathe Purina, they pull the same crap with their cat and dog food

 

[Tala]

Quote:
I don't understand how this can legally constitute a list of INGREDIENTS as it says NOTHING:

what grains are used?
what processed grains are used?
which plant proteins?

OK we have the supplements but that makes up a very minor part of the whole, the bulk is WHAT?

corn? wheat? millet? soy? oats?

You have to question why they can't spell out what they use, and in which order by weight. Normally companies do this when they buy bulk ingredients as per market availability, ie "which truck of ingredients is cheap today" - so I doubt very much this recipe is stable, by any means. Hence, you cannot guarantee the protein % or anything else.

I loathe Purina, they pull the same crap with their cat and dog food

This is why I originally did NOT buy Purina chicken feed.
I want to know WHICH grains!!!

But, I have had a good experience with it, and since my birds free range all day anyway I guess I can live with it.

 

[technodoll]

I buy it too since the local co-op sells nothing but Purina...

I really wish I had options, I hate feeding "mystery food" to my pets

AND I don't understand how this can be legal - everything else you buy has a clear list of ingredients available on the product label, even fish food!!

 

[Big C]

So unless you have local availability of mixing your own "layena" then you purchase bagged feed. The ingredients posted for Layena are taken from the bag. If you have a commercialy produced bag of feed that does not have the "ingredients" listed then this company is violating federal and state regulations.

If you want to know the "hidden" grains and proteins then call Purina. There is a posting here about Egglands Best vs home/free range/etc eggs, sure that most of you read it. Same applies here.

Go to your pantry and pick ANY processed food package you feed your family. The list will read somewhat the same. There are different labeling regulations for human vs animal food, but UNLESS the majority of your families or your animals feed comes from your home, there is NO way you can know the ACTUAL ngredients for your family or your animals.

The reason we use Layena as a SUPPLEMENT is:

Does the best for our flocks as a bagged feed SUPPLEMENT vs others we have tried.

Raising flocks for profit or just back yard chickens, eventually cost of either has to be associated vs your family financials. To date our ratio of feed vs costs works for our flock(s) for profit.

If we could find a SUPPLEMENT bagged feed for less that provides the same results, then we would happily use it...

 

[doublebow]

It is my understanding that the reason there are not actual specific ingredients listed is that the ingredients change with availability and price. If the price of oats goes up then they up the level of corn , and so on... To get a product that is the same formula, time after time, you would have to have it mixed yourself.

 

[kuntrychick]

Quote:
Speckled Hen,

So the 16% layer pellets from Faithway Feeds has animal protein? That's what I've been feeding my chickens, but just bought a bag of Layena from TSC and have mixed it.

Also, I have some month old chicks. I was thinking about using the Pen Pals gamebird feed because the guy that hatched them out for us started them on that because he raises quail and that's what he had.