Laying an egg without a shell?

[Tacampbell1973]

By this point in the thread you all should be asking how so many people describe a similar problem at the same time. A little research can show you that many people are experiencing similar egg laying issues just like this. Is it reasonable to expect that everyone out there has chickens that have/are:

1. Diets deficient in calcium
2. Over stressed
3. Defective shell glands
4. Suddenly cannibalistic

If not, then you could possibly deduce that this is a common problem that is most likely not caused by any of these problems but is just a common symptom of this time of year...as it is every year. And you will see many, many posts of this kind with helpful tips to increase calcium, protein, etc. and to bait eggs to "break an egg eater" or even advice to kill the dreaded "egg eater" as they simply cannot be broken.

Here's a tip....every year, twice a year, there are times when the egg laying gets a little freaky, with shell-less eggs, thin shells, easily broken eggs, double yolkers, eggs without yolks, etc. Simultaneously, you will also hear about "egg eaters" who are helping themselves to this bounty...news flash: All chickens eat eggs. It's a natural instinct on their part to keep nests clean and also because they are opportunistic eaters, so when they climb into a nest where an egg has been broken, they will eat it. It's normal and natural and happens at this time of the year and again at the molt in July/August/Sept. They will not continue to be egg eaters from now on, you do not need to somehow "break" them of it, it was not caused by feeding their own shells back to them or any other such nonsense.

This is not diet related. It's not a behavior that needs to be managed. It's a natural phenomenon that occurs when reproductive systems of chickens are either coming into higher production or moving from higher production into a decline in production. It's dictated by hormones and it only lasts a little while. How long it lasts is individual to the bird but it's pretty much a couple of weeks, on average. Older birds will have more issues than will younger, in their prime hens, and new pullets also have weirdness when they first start to lay. When a broody goes back to laying she can have similar issues.

How to make it stop? Patience and allowing nature to take its course. That's all.

Hi Beekissed,
what you say makes sense, but how come when I posted the question about what causes shellless eggs 950 people wrote bck to tell me that my birds were getting too much scratch (50/50) and that if I didn't do something soon they would die from calcium deficiency...This is why i researched calcium deficiency and how vitamin D helps calcium absorption. Its true here in WA we dont get enough sun and maybe that coupled with bad diet could have contributed. So yes I hit the panic button. And whether it was that or as you say nature taking its course the girls are laying fine now havent had a bad egg since, where they were having them every four days for a month at least. Also my girls were hatchery quality so i was told that could play a part too...theres just so much difference in opinionand i am so scared todo something wrong and wind up losing a bird. mind you i do wonder why my other four hens do fine and one has eggs with shells so thick that my husband jokes shes shitting bricks and he feels sorry if a chick ever has to try to break that shell cuz it wont . I keep asking myself how could one chicken have so much trouble? But I love her and am trying to do right with her. Oh and I wasnt giving them oyster shell regularly. since then i strted. didn't realize how important it was.

Ok I just reread your post and Faith did fall into the category of newer pullet just starting to lay. So that makes sense kind of. It just sucks becaause I want to learn as much as i can but when I get so many well meaning advisors its hard to tell who is right and who is not,.,.I guess it's even more like raising children than i thought. Someone said that if your bird is alive and healthy than you must be doing it right., I hope thats at least partly true. I would be horrified to think i killed them through ignorance.

 

[Beekissed]

Hi Beekissed,
what you say makes sense, but how come when I posted the question about what causes shellless eggs 950 people wrote bck to tell me that my birds were getting too much scratch (50/50) and that if I didn't do something soon they would die from calcium deficiency...This is why i researched calcium deficiency and how vitamin D helps calcium absorption. Its true here in WA we dont get enough sun and maybe that coupled with bad diet could have contributed. So yes I hit the panic button. And whether it was that or as you say nature taking its course the girls are laying fine now havent had a bad egg since, where they were having them every four days for a month at least. Also my girls were hatchery quality so i was told that could play a part too...theres just so much difference in opinionand i am so scared todo something wrong and wind up losing a bird. mind you i do wonder why my other four hens do fine and one has eggs with shells so thick that my husband jokes shes shitting bricks and he feels sorry if a chick ever has to try to break that shell cuz it wont . I keep asking myself how could one chicken have so much trouble? But I love her and am trying to do right with her. Oh and I wasnt giving them oyster shell regularly. since then i strted. didn't realize how important it was.

Because every person on here who has had chickens for a couple of years and has read Storey's Guide to chickens is an expert on chickens...that's how come.

If all your chickens are laying thin shelled eggs and this goes on for some time, you have a flock problem and maybe need to adjust your nutrition. If you have one or two doing it but the rest are fine on the nutrition you are providing, then you have a bird problem. Keep that in mind for the future. You don't adjust your whole flock nutrition or shift your paradigm for just a few birds if the majority are doing fine on your methods. I've fed 50/50 whole grain and layer ration every winter for several years and never had a calcium deficiency...and never gave oyster shell and never had shell problems(except for a few birds, twice a year...as per normal) and have had all hatchery sourced birds.

It's not the diet, it's not the bird source and it's not a calcium deficiency if you are feeding at least half layer ration. At this time of year you can nudge that up to 100% layer as they are coming into a peak laying season and will need all that nutrition if they are laying.

I'm going to ease your fears of losing a bird...you will eventually lose a bird. Chickens die for all sorts of reasons and sometimes you never know why and there's not a thing you could have done. It just happens. It WILL happen. So, don't worry about doing something wrong....you'll be an expert at it in a couple of years and be telling folks how to raise chickens!

Green grass, sunshine, fresh water, fresh air, clean soils underfoot and a layer ration and you'll do fine, no worries! Any ol' hillbilly can raise chickens and you can too.

 

[Tacampbell1973]

Thank you Beekissed, it does make sense now...

Well shoot, now i gotta look for something else to worry about. Thank you for spelling it out to where i can understand it better. Yeah the whole flock is not affected just the one little white cochin and occasionally her sister. They layed fine a few times and then one went into a glitch. Then the well-meaners started on about the horrors of an eggbound hen and I lost it. But i think i got it back now

I hope.

 

[Minwella]

Hi, yes I have had this problem with one of my chickens. I read somewhere that they are getting to much salt in there diet. I had to cut down on the table food scraps I was giving them, and it hasn't happened since. But there are other reasons too, if the salt solution doesn't work

 

[Andiexb]

I am curious how people determine which chickens are laying which eggs? I have 3 red hens and I know one of them has a tendency to lay soft eggs maybe once a week during this time of year. I wish i could figure it out and prevent her from breeding or perhaps try to supplement her specially.

Do I have to just sit there and watch them lay? lol

 

[nvchicks]

Ever dog has it's day... and in the united states approximately 5,500 dogs are put to death in the shelters every day!... so sad... Love my chickens, but when the time comes they will probable feed my dogs as well.

 

[Shabana]

I have a leghorn (Lilly) who has always laid soft shelled eggs. I would say that whilst in lay 5 out of 7 eggs are soft.
When I rescued her she was very poorly , full of worms, mite infested etc and I hoped her laying might improve. I'm not bothered about eggs but would like her to be healthy.
I have tried everything from calcium in her water to oyster shell, chicken eggshells baked and smashed up, high calcium diets, seaweed supplements oh you name it !
Anyway in the end we just accepted it. She is in a small flock of 4, in a very large pen. Every morning she lays her special egg and they all scoff it, however the other 3 lay and none of them touch those. They have not become egg eaters as they are well fed and cared for and Lilly's contributions are regarded as treats I think.
I have always cleaned my coops on a daily basis and so their is never any mess left from her soft egg and I am ok with it as long as she us ok. I collect eggs morning and night so to be fair they never have eggs sat there for more than half a day.
She is just one if those hens that cannot absorb calcium. She is however very happy very loving and turns 4 this year.

Sometimes, love is all you need.

 

[Beekissed]

I have a leghorn (Lilly) who has always laid soft shelled eggs. I would say that whilst in lay 5 out of 7 eggs are soft.
When I rescued her she was very poorly , full of worms, mite infested etc and I hoped her laying might improve. I'm not bothered about eggs but would like her to be healthy.
I have tried everything from calcium in her water to oyster shell, chicken eggshells baked and smashed up, high calcium diets, seaweed supplements oh you name it !
Anyway in the end we just accepted it. She is in a small flock of 4, in a very large pen. Every morning she lays her special egg and they all scoff it, however the other 3 lay and none of them touch those. They have not become egg eaters as they are well fed and cared for and Lilly's contributions are regarded as treats I think.
I have always cleaned my coops on a daily basis and so their is never any mess left from her soft egg and I am ok with it as long as she us ok. I collect eggs morning and night so to be fair they never have eggs sat there for more than half a day.
She is just one if those hens that cannot absorb calcium. She is however very happy very loving and turns 4 this year.

Sometimes, love is all you need.

You might try fermented chicken feed...some have reported birds with malabsorption problems are able to right them on this manner of feeding when they could not previously. There are two large threads on fermenting feed on which you can find info and read stories about just such chickens. Some report correction of cross beak, chronic feather pickers, chronic soft shellers, etc. being resolved due to the simple act of fermenting the feed you currently are feeding. It changes the nutrients so they are better and more easily absorbed and improves bowel health and abilities to absorb as well, so it's a win/win and has produced some amazing results.

 

[Shabana]

Thank you for this info, am going to read up on fermented feeds. I have just started to sprout seed for them all, Lilly's flock included, so I will certainly give it a go.

Thanks again x

 

[chickengeorgeto]

http://www.avianweb.com/eggproblems.html

Below are some of the causes associated with chickens laying eggs without shells and membranes, soft shelled eggs, thin shelled, eggs, and finally abnormal shelled eggs. This research was undertaken by Ms Sibylle Johnson, an avian expert. The text in bold letters was highlighted by me to help with clarity and understanding. Furthermore all text highlighted in red are my own words or thoughts. The text in black are Ms. Sibyle's.

“Malnutrition / Nutritional Deficiencies:
The eggshell is a protective layer for the embryo. 95% of the shell consists of calcium carbonate that builds up on the inner membrane. Deficiencies involving vitamins E, B12, and D as well as calcium, phosphorus, selenium impact the formation of the egg shell; most commonly resulting in thin or soft shells or eggs without a shell (only the membrane and yolk).

Remedying Nutritionally Deficiencies:
Supplementing the hen's diet with ground eggshells, ground limestone, limestone flour or oyster shells (offered separately, or sprinkled over or mixed in with the chicken's feed) - in combination with exposure to natural sunlight or supplementation with Vitamin D3 (NOT Vitamin D2) - are effective ways of boosting calcium levels, thereby effectively preventing or remedying eggshell abnormalities caused by calcium deficiency.”

[The richest and most natural sources of vitamins B12 & D3 are slaughter house byproducts, milk byproducts, and fish meal. In the plant kingdom soybean meal is the richest source of vitamin D3 but soy is totally lacking in vitamin B12]

"If applicable, decrease or discontinue treats that reduce the percentage of calcium that the chicken derives from its diet. (The higher the percentage of low-nutritional-value treats a bird gets directly impacts the quality of its overall nutrition.) Grit is sometimes provided in the mistaken belief that it contains calcium - it does not and, therefore, has no effect on egg quality.

Note:
EXCESSIVE consumption of phosphorus or calcium is likely to result in eggs with an abnormally thick shelled or have rough shells.

Inherited / metabolic conditions may inhibit the absorption of nutrients resulting in malnutrition in spite of adequate dietary provision.

Vitamin D3 is required for calcium absorption and utilization; if a hen is deficient in [plain old every day] Vitamin D, this can also impede the formation of the shell.

Risks Associated with Thin/Soft-shell Eggs:
One of the big risks of soft-shelled eggs that they can easily burst on exit and become retained resulting in internal infections and often in death of the hen...”

"[OTHER CAUSES:]
Infectious Diseases:
Infectious Bronchitis (IBV):

Infectious laryngotracheiti (ILT) -
See more at:
http://www.avianweb.com/eggproblems.html#sthash.6Uc32RdD.dpuf

Egg drop syndrome (EDS)”
[EDS is not a problem in North America]

“Ochratoxicosis:
Caused by feeding grain (in many instances corn, but also wheat and barley) contaminated with ochratoxin produced by Aspergillus ochraceous or Penicillium viridicatum (fungi). Symptoms include poor growth rate diarrhea, reduced pigmentation, soiled eggs, reduced egg production, poor egg shell quality, kidney disease, [in]fertility, tremors, hypotension, slow heart rate (bradycardia), chronic respiratory disease, decreased feed consumption, and, if untreated / unresolved, death.”

• See more at: http://www.avianweb.com/eggproblems.html#sthash.6Uc32RdD.dpuf

The above condition can be a direct result of feeding fermented and sprouted chicken feed. Penicillium viridicatum is where the drug Penicillin comes from. Remember, Penicillin is an antibiotic and long term antibiotic use is a major cause of egg and eggshell abnormalities.

Ms. Johnson did not mention this but overly fat hens must strain excessively to expel every egg. The reason for this is because almost all the fat in a hens' body is concentrated around her vent. What this fat does is make it harder for the egg to pass out of her body and that results in stretched and torn tissues in the hens' reproductive track. These torn tissues and muscles makes it difficult for a hen to hold her eggs inside of her body until the shell is formed. Although I have never seen any research on it, I do strongly suspect that this is the reason that so many of you report finding soft (no) shell eggs under the roost.

Have a good day.