Lets Talk Horse Genetics

[Cara]

There is no need to go looking for it in other true distinct breeds (ie not those continually crossed with a hodge-podge of different breeds). It is quite apparent if a horse is demonstrating the symptoms of HYPP.

I sure wish the AQHA would handle the situation better. There is no reason to allow the breeding or showing of H/H or N/H horses, since there's no way to tell until the foal is born whether it will lead a productive life or continually suffer from severe attacks. Why they allow the registration of horses carrying a serious genetic disease that undermines the integrity of the breed is beyond me.

 

[onthespot]

One of the horses was a morgan. I say it IS in other breeds, but very rare.

 

[Cara]

It would have to be present in a very specific bloodline with little distribution, as HYPP cannot skip generations and crop up later on. A H/H horse will always pass the gene on to its offspring, and a N/H will pass it on 50% of the time.

Chances are if someone unscrupulous knows they have a horse with HYPP, they are going to switch the papers or it will be rendered worthless. There's also room for human error with people selling off horses they have inherited, mix-ups at sale barns etc.

 

[onthespot]

The morgan owner knew their horse was N/H and when it kept having attacks they had a different vet out to treat "colic" so they could collect insurance when it died. Their decision to not press the issue and go public was completely driven by money and greed.

 

[BluegrassSeramas]

Quote:
Back to the OP..................

I actually have a neat rare printed book (that I paid a lot for, lol) written by Ed North, Associate Professor at Mississippi Medical School.

It is called THE DUN FACTORBreeding the red dun and the red dun paint

I actually have a beautiful registered sabino-overo apricot dun mare, a red dun with birdcatcher spots and 2 grullas. I love the dun gene and genetics!!
Here is what the book says for red dun and grullo....
There are different gene codes and even explanation of colors. I can give you all that..maybe Friday..its a lot to type and explain, and I have a scanner at work! You would have to learn what AaBbCCDdeeffggOoPprrstystyTt means and I cant type all that right now........ But I hope this helps for now and gives you some ideas.
I also suggest getting the book HORSE COLOR EXPLAINED..it rocks!


RED DUN x GRULLO (If you want I can scan in the gene codes later)
You get: 37.5% Red Dun.............14% zebra dun..............14%grullo...................12.5% sorrel (ruano)...............5%Bay...............5%black..................5% lineback yellow dun...............5%muddy dun......................1.5% sorrel (tostado).......1.5% chocolate chestnut


HERE IS ANOTHER COMBO of GENES THAT I DONT HAVE TIME TO TYPE..sorry!


RED DUN x GRULLO
37.5% Red dun..........28%Grullo...........12.5% sorrel (ruano)..........9% Jet black...............9% Muddy dun..............3% Chocolate chestnut

and the last one I see before I have to head to bed......
There must be chestnut genes in here b/c there is a lot of dilute...
Here goes!

RED DUN x GRULLO
19% red dun........19%lineback palimino.................4% zebra dun..........14%grullo............6%sorrel(ruano).....6% Palimino............5% lineback yellow dun......5%Muddy dun..2%Bay.........2%Buckskin..........2%black.............2% smoky black................0.8% sorrel (tostado).........0.8% Yellow dun......0.8% chocolate chestnut...........0.8% lilac dun..

Hope it gives you some ideas!! Sorry to leave out all the complicated helpful info!

 

[Cara]

That is just terrible. I don't see how people can breed and show N/H horses, or how the AQHA can allow it. Showing is supposed to be about producing and exhibiting the best of the best, not portraying an image of a beautiful creature that in actuality is quite unhealthy and even dangerous.

We found out about the HYPP problem quite by accident. My husband hadn't ever bought a horse, he's always used the ranch horses. They have no halter breeding, as is quite apparent by the gigantic heads some of them exhibit! I was looking to buy myself a horse never having had a QH, and came across one that seemed to be very well bred and good looking at a too-good-to-be true price. He was by this stud, AQHA World Champion CK Kid:

With a little research, it all became apparent. He was N/H. If we hadn't asked the sellers outright about his status, we may well never have known. Needless to say we didn't even look at him. I don't understand how the AQHA can have a world champion stallion that has a 50% chance of passing on a paralysing disease to his offspring. Well I do, the same reason the owner continues to breed and show him: $$$.

 

[sbarab]

IMO The HYPP debate needs its own thread or everyone needs to agree to disagree.

This debate has been raging for years and the outcome on message boards is always the same; a bunch of arguing, hurt feelings and no change made in the breeding of HYPP + horses.

 

[lorieMN]

Quote:
a "tri-colored" is a bay horse with paint markings..makeing it a color term.. tobiano is a coat PATTERN,tobiano can be in any color..I suppose some people would call a buckskin paint a tri also,but it usually is used on bay colored paint marked horses..tobiano,overo,tovero and sabino are all PATTERNS and have nothing to do with COLOR.any color can have these patterns,

 

[lorieMN]

Quote:
from aug "western horseman" mag,in 2007 AQHA refused reg of horses tested H/H,however being a dominate gene horses that have only on copy of the mutant gene can show symptoms and pass the trait on to half their offspring,beginning in 2020 AQHA will refuse registration of any horses testing H/N..

 

[onthespot]

That would be a step in the right direction. It gives people time to change direction in their breeding program without losing their entire investment. Glad they are setting a time limit that gives people heavily invested (millions and millions) into HYPP horses a way to ease out without losing everything they have worked for. Easy for people not invested to say "off with their heads" of every positive horse, unless nearly your entire ranch is that kind of horse, winning, selling, paying the bills. Changing direction in a breeding program takes a lot of time and I think ten years is a realistic time frame for the association members to adjust accordingly. I will probably be shot down for agreeing they should take so long, but unless you have bred a line of horses for ten or twenty years and gotten REALLY GOOD horses that consistently produce really good ones, you don't know how hard it was to get there, or how hard it is to breed away from it and still keep as much of the best as you can while getting rid of HYPP. If you don't breed a stud until he is four, due to show schedules and keeping his mind on his work, then another year before the baby is born, another year or two or three before it begins to gain a show record... BAM! Time's up!