LGBTQ+ Poultry Keepers

[Canadian Wind]

My take is at the core of each persons thinking mind is a spirit. And that spirit has no particular sex and some people feel this and know they are neither male or female. But that is for the spirit the core of who you are, not the body. Sometimes spirit runs the body but so much more of the time the body runs and controls the spirit.

Well said. My own spirit is very much neutral, I am ME. I a not defined by the form of my body, although certain hormones try to confuse it.

The gender binary came to the United States with colonization. It is quite literally a western concept. Not all cultures accept the gender binary.

Apologies to anyone Christian out there, but they are the main culprits of this. It got worse over the years as they tried to impose their power on the masses (it's slowly getting better nowadays though, thankfully).

And there is no behavior or emotion intrinsic to male vs female that isn't impressed on us societally. Gender is a social contruct so society will try to get us to act a certain way based on gender or perceived sex. Nobody is born with a set of emotions and behaviors specific to their sex. Some of it is genetic and most of it is learned.

This is also a bit untrue, imo. Genetics and hormones do play a very big role in our societal behaviour, for good or bad. Even in so called primitive societies, there are norms for each gender which plays to their strengths. There will always be those that have different leanings and strengths, but the majority are quite content with being what the norm is because it is genetically programmed into them.

We are the exceptions. But that doesn't make us any less or more than others. We are who we are and should be accepted for that, not vilified.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

But I don’t think it serves anybody to lie to ones self and tell yourself that your body form has no sex. Now maby in an ideal reality Or parallel universe The bodies would be a-sexual

No one is saying they don't have a sex. Some people don't have a gender and are agender. Asexual means there is little/no sex drive

 

[JacinLarkwell]

 

[Canadian Wind]

View attachment 4037367

That's a nice one Jacin!

 

[TOMTE]

This is also a bit untrue, imo. Genetics and hormones do play a very big role in our societal behaviour, for good or bad. Even in so called primitive societies, there are norms for each gender which plays to their strengths. There will always be those that have different leanings and strengths, but the majority are quite content with being what the norm is because it is genetically programmed into them.

We are the exceptions. But that doesn't make us any less or more than others. We are who we are and should be accepted for that, not vilified.

Oh yeah, I'm not saying that a lot of people (cis people mainly) aren't entirely comfortable living in the norm. And genetics and hormones do play a part in how we act, to an extent. But to leave it at that kind of ignores fact that we are still able to consciously make behavioral and emotional decisions. Like, to blame a cis man's bad behavior solely on his genetics and hormones pretty much gives him a free pass to continue that bad behavior. Because he can't help it, right? Because it's in his DNA... Nah, we also have to acknowledge that society plays the biggest role. Cis men get away with atrocious stuff because they have power, which society has given them. Not that cis women don't also get away with things, but women don't have as much societal power as men do.

 

[TOMTE]

View attachment 4037367

The mtn dew can yup

Did you sculpt this? SO COOL!!

 

[Canadian Wind]

Oh yeah, I'm not saying that a lot of people (cis people mainly) aren't entirely comfortable living in the norm. And genetics and hormones do play a part in how we act, to an extent. But to leave it at that kind of ignores fact that we are still able to consciously make behavioral and emotional decisions. Like, to blame a cis man's bad behavior solely on his genetics and hormones pretty much gives him a free pass to continue that bad behavior. Because he can't help it, right? Because it's in his DNA... Nah, we also have to acknowledge that society plays the biggest role. Cis men get away with atrocious stuff because they have power, which society has given them. Not that cis women don't also get away with things, but women don't have as much societal power as men do.

Personally, I disagree with this. We aren't talking about the same thing, this is more societal values. The rules and regulations we agree to abide to to be part of a group. Societal behaviour, like not jaywalking or murdering your neighbour.

But this goes way deeper and is more philosophical. My brain doesn't feel like debating the intricacies of human behaviour.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

That's a nice one Jacin!

Thanks! This one took me all week to do, I'm so proud of him though.

The mtn dew can yup

Did you sculpt this? SO COOL!!

No, he's 3d printed, I primed and painted him though

 

[BelovedBirds]

And there is no behavior or emotion intrinsic to male vs female that isn't impressed on us societally. Gender is a social contruct so society will try to get us to act a certain way based on gender or perceived sex. Nobody is born with a set of emotions and behaviors specific to their sex. Some of it is genetic and most of it is learned.

I don't disagree with much of what you said, and I really appreciate reading your perspective, but I wanted to bring up a couple points in contribution to some of the discussion (I've not been hugely involved in this thread in ages, but I love checking in and reading the conversation!)

So firstly, my perspective on this is that gender is not entirely a social construct. I believe the terminology, gender roles, gender expression etc that we have are social constructs, but that it can be boiled down to a sense of self that is just as physically part of us as our sex is.

I believe that this internal sense of self varies for every single person, that each person has a slightly unique relationship to their gender. Even without the influence of social constructs and gender norms, I think we would still have some understanding of gender. I'd even go as far as to suggest that other intelligent species have their own identities that work in a similar way. But I don't think there's any solid evidence of that.

In sumary, I think gender itself consists of quite a complex mix of both neuro science and social constructs. I don't believe in the view of gender not really existing or that it can ever be gone from society.

I'd also add that babies aren't truly born with gender, as gender develops in the brain typically around the age of 2, but potentially as late as 7. However, I think the blueprint is already there, the foundation for who you will be is determined in the womb, and you develop according to that, rather than according to external influence or social pressure. I'm not an expert, this is just to my understanding, and my opinion

This is a very complex and very interesting topic, and it's really fascinating to hear everyone's view of this stuff!

 

[TOMTE]

Personally, I disagree with this. We aren't talking about the same thing, this is more societal values. The rules and regulations we agree to abide to to be part of a group. Societal behaviour, like not jaywalking or murdering your neighbour.

But this goes way deeper and is more philosophical. My brain doesn't feel like debating the intricacies of human behaviour.

I think I probably misunderstood what you were saying, then. If not societal behavior, what were you talking about?

I don't disagree with much of what you said, and I really appreciate reading your perspective, but I wanted to bring up a couple points in contribution to some of the discussion (I've not been hugely involved in this thread in ages, but I love checking in and reading the conversation!)

So firstly, my perspective on this is that gender is not entirely a social construct. I believe the terminology, gender roles, gender expression etc that we have are social constructs, but that it can be boiled down to a sense of self that is just as physically part of us as our sex is.

I believe that this internal sense of self varies for every single person, that each person has a slightly unique relationship to their gender. Even without the influence of social constructs and gender norms, I think we would still have some understanding of gender. I'd even go as far as to suggest that other intelligent species have their own identities that work in a similar way. But I don't think there's any solid evidence of that.

In sumary, I think gender itself consists of quite a complex mix of both neuro science and social constructs. I don't believe in the view of gender not really existing or that it can ever be gone from society.

I'd also add that babies aren't truly born with gender, as gender develops in the brain typically around the age of 2, but potentially as late as 7. However, I think the blueprint is already there, the foundation for who you will be is determined in the womb, and you develop according to that, rather than according to external influence or social pressure. I'm not an expert, this is just to my understanding, and my opinion

This is a very complex and very interesting topic, and it's really fascinating to hear everyone's view of this stuff!

Gender being a social construct doesn't negate the fact that gender is important. Being a trans man is important to me. I'm definitely not saying that gender wouldn't be a thing at all without societal influence. I'm critiquing our cisnormative society which presses male vs female without acknowledging that it is much deeper and more nuanced than that.