Life after Marek's ???

[rebrascora]

Just want to say that those are some excellent posts by Lady of McCamley and I would echo most of what she says. My only disagreement would be about vaccination as I am not a fan of the Marek's vaccine. It generates a false sense of security as well as potentially invites more aggressive strains of the disease to evolve. You also need to practice very strict biosecurity for 2-3 weeks after vaccinating chicks which means remembering to cover hair, wash hands and face and change clothes and shoes between the main flock and handling the chicks.... difficult if just one person is involved but if there are multiple people tending chicks and lets face it, everyone wants to handle chicks, it is quite difficult to enforce and may be why vaccinated birds still get the disease.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Agreed with @rebrascora

I personally do not vaccinate for Marek's but keep a diversified flock...some purchased purposely from a turkey farm. (The turkeys freely intermingled with the hens).

Then I breed from the strong.

I've only sold hatching eggs as I don't want the hassle of chick sales. (Customers are more finicky with chicks, who are more vulnerable to transition stress. No one guarantees hatches from eggs.)

 

[orrpeople]

No...don't cull them all! Breed from those that are resistant!

And if you haven't done so yet, send the bird with the most obvious symptoms to an Ag lab for necropsy. A definite diagnosis would really help your business plans. There are other things that can mimic Marek's.

Yes, Cream Legbars are susceptible. The first breeding pairs (I think that Greenfire Farms brought over) all succumbed to Marek's in the US. Later stock was better, but the breed is known to have problems with it.

I lost a Cream Legbar x Barnevelder cross to what I am pretty sure was Marek's, though both hens that could have been her mother (CL's) never showed signs.

I'll link some information for you about how the industry is encouraging breeding for resistance rather than relying solely on the vaccine.

Informing buyers is the important thing. However, that also means being fully informed. Many buyers are aware that Marek's is part of the atmosphere, and all chickens are considered exposed. Many are interested in chicks from resistant flocks rather than chicks who have been vaccinated.

Personally, I would cull those who are severely affected. Clean your coops thoroughly. Watch for those who show no signs, and breed from them. Then sell the fertile eggs, which in themselves are profitable. (The cheapest I can find around here was $3 an egg, or $20 a dozen...better lines are $5 an egg).

The nice thing about selling fertilized eggs is there is less risk on your part, and no transmission of Marek's possible.

After your line settles, and you have no sign of Marek's for a generation, or two, then you can sell chicks...unless you decide to incubator hatch chicks and immediately vaccinate them for sale...keeping the unvaccinated chicks for the next generation of breeding, or you could decide to vaccinate all chicks (or eggs at day 18).

It is very frustrating...I know.

LofMc

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/tthis-chicken-vaccine-makes-virus-dangerous

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/neoplasms/marek’s-disease-in-poultry

I did receive a very scary secondary necropsy report for the bird I sent in, confirming the Marek's diagnosis after a first that didn't mention the disease. So I had three days of relief only to receive the second report.
I am definitely not going to do anything rash, and I so appreciate your words of wisdom.

 

[rebrascora]

@orrpeople

I did find it strange that you were commenting on this thread after I had read your necropsy report which I gave my reservations about on that thread.... did you update it with the new results because I haven't had an "alert". Very odd that they should send a secondary report like that.... as you know, I was a bit sceptical of the first report.

 

[orrpeople]

@orrpeople

I did find it strange that you were commenting on this thread after I had read your necropsy report which I gave my reservations about on that thread.... did you update it with the new results because I haven't had an "alert". Very odd that they should send a secondary report like that.... as you know, I was a bit sceptical of the first report.

Yeah, it was a punch to the gut for sure. I ended up on this thread because I felt like I had kind of hijacked the other thread and the subject had gotten changed to avian leukosis. Anyway, yes, I was also a bit skeptical but of course hopeful the first report was accurate. I agree it was handled oddly.

 

[rebrascora]

Really sorry to hear that you have now officially joined the very unexclusive club of Marek's flock owners. Would like to say "welcome" but I definitely wouldn't mean it as it's not a great place to be but it is manageable and I do think Lady of McCamley's approach is the right one. I'm certainly pleased that I didn't cull my flock when it was first diagnosed. I've nursed sick ones for weeks/months and had some pretty miraculous recoveries and the majority of birds have show no symptoms and I'm 3 years down the line, so don't despair totally. After the initial outbreak it does settle down a bit, to more of an odd one here and there every year. You get to recognise the signs even though they are not all identical symptoms. I don't euthanize until they stop eating and drinking.

 

[orrpeople]

Really sorry to hear that you have now officially joined the very unexclusive club of Marek's flock owners. Would like to say "welcome" but I definitely wouldn't mean it as it's not a great place to be but it is manageable and I do think Lady of McCamley's approach is the right one. I'm certainly pleased that I didn't cull my flock when it was first diagnosed. I've nursed sick ones for weeks/months and had some pretty miraculous recoveries and the majority of birds have show no symptoms and I'm 3 years down the line, so don't despair totally. After the initial outbreak it does settle down a bit, to more of an odd one here and there every year. You get to recognise the signs even though they are not all identical symptoms. I don't euthanize until they stop eating and drinking.

I had found, in my initial research, how much I learned to respect you and others managing the disease. I am not sad to be counted among you if I can be even half as helpful to others in the throes of receiving the devistating news as you all have been to me. I still have some decisions to make, as my motivations for chicken keeping have been the development of rare breeds (and, of course selling the improved birds for others to enjoy). So, the wrench has been thrown into the plans now.

 

[rebrascora]

What a really lovely but humbling thing to say. Thank you! However I have to credit a lot of my knowledge of Marek's to other members of BYC who selflessly shared their experiences. Knowledge is power and combining our resources via the use of this wonderful forum, can hopefully help us all to find a best practice against this disease. It's like we all gain a little bit of the puzzle and then pass it forward for someone else to put the picture together.
I'm really sorry that this diagnosis has made achieving your goals more difficult, but it will be all the more worthwhile when you accomplish them, even if it means changing the goal posts a little to get there.

Best wishes

Barbara

 

[Lady of McCamley]

@orrpeople
Even though it is a disheartening set back for your immediate plans, try to focus on the profound service you are doing to rescue and develop these rare breeds.

It is diligent and conscientious people like you who have prevented many of these fine breeds from becoming extinct.

But alas all good things require patience and work.

Hang in there and keep us posted...both the joys of victory as well as the agony of defeat.

We've all been there with our flocks. (I'm having to restart my whole line of Cream Legbar...my Isbar attempts were utter failure...but I'll keep slowly working for a beautiful flock of colorful egg layers).

LofMc

 

[orrpeople]

So far, and I still have my Isbars (Silverudd's Blues). Most of mine are not vaccinated, so we shall see how they do. They're laying, and I hatched one with a different batch. I'm wondering if I should collect a bunch of eggs from my birds to hatch..
@Lady of McCamley - do you vaccinate your new chicks or just hope for the best?