Limping chicken / funky eggs

[RedLionChooks]

Hello ~ would appreciate some advise from experienced chicken keepers. I have a 1.5 year old Black Australorp who came up lame yesterday. I immediately considered bumblefoot, though there is no scab, nor any evidence of a cut or puncture. I soaked her foot anyway (last evening and today). She is still limping today. This hen has been laying incredibly large, irregularly shaped eggs for about a week or so. There have also been a few leathery eggs under her roost, and one leathery, rubber shell stuck to her tail feathers today. She has also had some diarrhea with what appeared to be a few round worms last week.

I have used DE, ACV, dill, carrots, black walnut tincture in the food this week. No other signs of worms / no diarrhea / no pale combs. I keep a pretty clean coop / run, and the birds free range several hours per day. I do not feel that the flock is overrun with worms. I hope that some worms from time to time are just normal. All combs bright red, all energetic and look great.

I guess I have a few specific questions:

1. Does bumblefoot happen only with a visible laceration / cut / puncture? Or can it be a result of some other injury / illness?
2. Does a bird limp with bumblefoot without yet showing telltale signs (scab, swelling, redness, etc)?
3. Could the limp and the egg situation be linked?
4. Should I be concerned seeing 2 worms in one poop last week?

In the meantime, I'll continue to soak the foot, and inspect her a bit closer again this evening.

Thanks for any guidance - I read through a bunch of old posts on bumblefoot, but this hen does not look like that. I will try to snap a pic later.

 

[coach723]

Bumblefoot is an infection caused by bacteria entering a wound, can be as small as a scrape, or tiny puncture. It can be slow developing, but as time passes there will usually be swelling and/or a lesion or scab. Sometimes a bird will limp due to pressure on the sciatic nerve if an egg is in the oviduct on the way down, particularly if it's large. Not super common, but it can happen. More likely is a sprain or strain, which can happen if they land wonky jumping down from perches etc. Those can take some time to resolve, depending on severity. Soaking is good and can be helpful. For the worms, I would strongly suggest that you worm your flock with a chemical wormer. That is what I would do. Safeguard liquid goat wormer, Safeguard horse paste, or Valbazen are all good for roundworms. Roundworms are the easiest to pick up in the environment, easiest to get reinfected with (the eggs survive a very long time in the soil) and they do not always show up in droppings, most of the time they live their entire lives inside the bird/host. They can make birds very sick if left untreated. May or may not be the issue with the eggs, but I would treat for that, they really can cause serious digestive issues and secondary infection.

 

[RedLionChooks]

Bumblefoot is an infection caused by bacteria entering a wound, can be as small as a scrape, or tiny puncture. It can be slow developing, but as time passes there will usually be swelling and/or a lesion or scab. Sometimes a bird will limp due to pressure on the sciatic nerve if an egg is in the oviduct on the way down, particularly if it's large. Not super common, but it can happen. More likely is a sprain or strain, which can happen if they land wonky jumping down from perches etc. Those can take some time to resolve, depending on severity. Soaking is good and can be helpful. For the worms, I would strongly suggest that you worm your flock with a chemical wormer. That is what I would do. Safeguard liquid goat wormer, Safeguard horse paste, or Valbazen are all good for roundworms. Roundworms are the easiest to pick up in the environment, easiest to get reinfected with (the eggs survive a very long time in the soil) and they do not always show up in droppings, most of the time they live their entire lives inside the bird/host. They can make birds very sick if left untreated. May or may not be the issue with the eggs, but I would treat for that, they really can cause serious digestive issues and secondary infection.

Thanks so much coach723 for your feedback. I will consider treating with chemicals for worms.

In the meantime, I did notice that this hen in question was in the nest box later in the morning, came out without laying, returned to the nest box a bit later, again left without laying. I am wondering if the egg issues and limp are connected. Some of her eggs have been goose egg size lately, dwarfing the other eggs - cannot shut the carton. Will continue to observe, soak leg, and post outcome. As you stated, the limp could be from landing wrong - so hard to tell when the chickens cannot tell us what is wrong! Thanks again.

 

[coach723]

You're welcome, hope she recovers and has no other problems.
Did not ask before, but does she have access to oyster shell for calcium all the time? Could be a contributor to soft shelled eggs. Low vitamin D, or too many treats can upset the balance also. I always have oyster shell available in separate feeders so those that need the extra can take what they need, needs can vary greatly from bird to bird and season to season. I have had a couple that laid really enormous eggs, always worried about them suffering egg binding or prolapse because of the egg size, but it never happened with them. Last thought, at 1.5 years she may molt (If she hasn't already) and going in and out of molt can also cause glitches as they prepare to stop laying, and restart after.

 

[RedLionChooks]

You're welcome, hope she recovers and has no other problems.
Did not ask before, but does she have access to oyster shell for calcium all the time? Could be a contributor to soft shelled eggs. Low vitamin D, or too many treats can upset the balance also. I always have oyster shell available in separate feeders so those that need the extra can take what they need, needs can vary greatly from bird to bird and season to season. I have had a couple that laid really enormous eggs, always worried about them suffering egg binding or prolapse because of the egg size, but it never happened with them. Last thought, at 1.5 years she may molt (If she hasn't already) and going in and out of molt can also cause glitches as they prepare to stop laying, and restart after.

Yes, access to eggs shells and oyster shells every day. I have noticed that all of the chickens have been taking more calcium lately. We do not offer treats of any kind. They are fed an organic feed from Scratch and Peck, organic vegetables (including daily kale / collards / chard / dandelion greens) and access to one acre each day. I do offer them dried grubs each day, also from Scratch and Peck, but not too much. I will continue to monitor closely. I think the rubbery / leather eggs are telling of something. I have seen them every now and then, but I have noted at least 3 in 7-10 days, and I suspect it is from this hen in question.

Heading out now to have a look. Thanks for the feedback - it's very helpful!

 

[coach723]

Some greens can interfere with absorption of calcium. Spinach, collard greens, chard contain higher levels of oxalates (oxalic acid) which is what interferes with calcium, so should be given sparingly. Scratch and Peck feeds are whole grain, and some birds will pick and choose the bits they like, leaving the rest, which can sometimes lead to deficiencies. A pellet or crumble type feed doesn't let them do that. Just putting those out there as possible contributors.

 

[aart]

I have used DE, ACV, dill, carrots, black walnut tincture in the food this week.

I would cut all this out.

They are fed an organic feed from Scratch and Peck

If it is the cracked grain formulation, would b good to soak or ferment it so all the fines(vitamins/minerals/amino acids) stick the grains.

 

[RedLionChooks]

I would cut all this out.

If it is the cracked grain formulation, would b good to soak or ferment it so all the fines(vitamins/minerals/amino acids) stick the grains.

Good morning, thanks AART.

Scratch and Peck is fermented / soaked.

Out of curiosity, why do you recommend cutting out natural supplements / remedies to help combat worms? What do you do / recommend instead?

 

[aart]

Out of curiosity, why do you recommend cutting out natural supplements / remedies to help combat worms?

Because they are not likely to be effective and can cause, or mask, other problems.

What do you do / recommend instead?

If I thought my birds had a worm problem I would have fecal floats done to determine if, what, and how many, then use an appropriate chemical wormer.


On the limping, I have had several limpers, only a couple bad enough to 'treat'.
Even once they are well enough to eat and drink and get around effectively,
it can take weeks for strain/sprain to fully heal.
If limp is really bothering them by inhibiting their normal activities too much, I will isolate them in a crate to 'force' rest for a day or two. Letting them out late in day, an hour before roost time, to give them a stretch and evaluate their mobility, then decide if they need another day and put them back in crate off roost after dark. Repeat stretch and eval the next day until they are better. Keep crate in coop so bird can remain 'with' the flock.

 

[Matejka]

Us it possible the leg is sore and not the foot? Try gently feeling entire leg for tender spots, lumps, etc... look for other injuries besides possible bumblefoot. If the foot looks healthy, I always look for other possibilities, leg, hip joints.would large or extra large eggs cause hip pain or possible dislocation?