Limping hen

[Hholly]

My roost was 5 feet high. My hen that is limping is a newly acquired brahma. She's much larger than my other chickens and she lands very heavily when she jumps off of something. I lowered the roost to about 14 inches off the floor for her. She may be slowly improving. But I'm still not certain what is the cause of her lameness.

Here are a couple of article for you on diseases:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/poultry-diseases-1

https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq

 

[tobit]

My roost was 5 feet high. My hen that is limping is a newly acquired brahma. She's much larger than my other chickens and she lands very heavily when she jumps off of something. I lowered the roost to about 14 inches off the floor for her. She may be slowly improving. But I'm still not certain what is the cause of her lameness.

Here are a couple of article for you on diseases:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/poultry-diseases-1

https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq

Hmm my CL is fairly small for a large fowl (and a decently good flyer) so I would be surprised if she had injured herself coming off the roost - we've had chicken for 10 years in this coop with this roost and not had any problems (with birds that were her weight/slightly heavier). Thanks for the links I'll have a look!

 

[rebrascora]

Hi

I'm in the north east of England so experiencing the same weather conditions.... mild and wet.... yuk!

Marek's is spread via dander dust from an infected bird which is then inhaled by other birds. It can be carried on the wind, on birds feathers, on your clothing, shoes and hair. Possibly even as simply as picking up a bag of feed at the feed store that someone else, whose flock has Marek's, has brushed against..... it can be pretty much everywhere. A bit like cold sores with people, birds can be infected and appear perfectly healthy but are carriers for life and shed the virus when they have an outbreak. If however, you have added new birds in the past few months, they are the most likely source.

6 months is a prime time for it to exhibit especially at this time of year and adolescent cockerels have almost certainly been a significant factor triggering outbreaks in my flock.

Mine started with a lame pullet and I too assumed she had injured herself as I have very high roosts, but a few days later I had two more lame. Some got better pretty quickly (a matter of days) and a percentage of those had secondary attacks up to a year later. Others deteriorated and had to be culled. I also had some young birds which died unexpectedly without lameness which I now suspect were also Marek's.... perhaps visceral tumours that caused heart attack. When I have time. I now do post mortem exams on the ones that die as it helps me understand the disease and how best to deal with it's vicitms.... I feel better when I have culled a bird and then find huge tumours inside it....it kind of vindicates my decision.

This last season I have only had only one chick exhibit symptoms out of 28 broody reared chicks, 5 of them have just started laying and I've processed 8 of the cockerels that were all healthy. The sick one presented with a dropped wing this time. It has improved and is holding it's own but not growing and thriving although it eats and poops normally,.... it still free ranges with the flock though the day though, so not an invalid as such but I put it in the infirmary at night where it has easy access to food and water without risk of bullying..... I've found that Marek's sick birds benefit hugely from the company of other chickens.... having 2 sick with it at once is a blessing as they motivate each other to eat and fight it. Isolation causes them to get depressed and they eventually give up fighting it. It affects the immune system, so being happy and eating well is very important. I had one last year that was on her side and couldn't get up. I had her in the infirmary which is inside the hen house but through the day she was in there on her own and after a couple of weeks I was on the point of culling her.... she was propped up in a nest and constantly soiling herself etc. O put another lame pullet in with her one day and to my shock and amazement she attacked it, despite being badly disabled. Thankfully, once they sorted out the pecking order they became firm friends and both showed dramatic improvement over the next few months, so that when spring came I was able to put them out on the grass in the sunshine in a cage.... after that improved even more quickly and a month or so later they were gimpy still but free ranging with the flock and even laying the odd egg....just so you know there is hope.

Marek's birds will often be bright eyed and eat well but waste away as the tumours develop. I had to euthanize a legbar cock a few weeks ago that had his first attack a year ago and fully recovered a few days later. He has been absolutely fine for a year but went down with it again a month ago and this time he succumbed. You get to know when to give tlc and when it's time to end their suffering. Usually, if they are keen to eat and show some fight, I will give supportive care.

Anyway let's hope it isn't Marek's but at least you are now reasonably genned up if it is. Hopefully I have answered all your queries on it but shout up if I missed anything. There are several extensive threads about Marek's on this forum and from reading those and talking to other poultry people here in the UK, it seems that the Marek's here is not as virulent, whereas people in the US have lost over 50% (some 100%) of their young birds to it.

 

[tobit]

Hi

I'm in the north east of England so experiencing the same weather conditions.... mild and wet.... yuk!

Marek's is spread via dander dust from an infected bird which is then inhaled by other birds. It can be carried on the wind, on birds feathers, on your clothing, shoes and hair. Possibly even as simply as picking up a bag of feed at the feed store that someone else, whose flock has Marek's, has brushed against..... it can be pretty much everywhere. A bit like cold sores with people, birds can be infected and appear perfectly healthy but are carriers for life and shed the virus when they have an outbreak. If however, you have added new birds in the past few months, they are the most likely source.

6 months is a prime time for it to exhibit especially at this time of year and adolescent cockerels have almost certainly been a significant factor triggering outbreaks in my flock.

Mine started with a lame pullet and I too assumed she had injured herself as I have very high roosts, but a few days later I had two more lame. Some got better pretty quickly (a matter of days) and a percentage of those had secondary attacks up to a year later. Others deteriorated and had to be culled. I also had some young birds which died unexpectedly without lameness which I now suspect were also Marek's.... perhaps visceral tumours that caused heart attack. When I have time. I now do post mortem exams on the ones that die as it helps me understand the disease and how best to deal with it's vicitms.... I feel better when I have culled a bird and then find huge tumours inside it....it kind of vindicates my decision.

This last season I have only had only one chick exhibit symptoms out of 28 broody reared chicks, 5 of them have just started laying and I've processed 8 of the cockerels that were all healthy. The sick one presented with a dropped wing this time. It has improved and is holding it's own but not growing and thriving although it eats and poops normally,.... it still free ranges with the flock though the day though, so not an invalid as such but I put it in the infirmary at night where it has easy access to food and water without risk of bullying..... I've found that Marek's sick birds benefit hugely from the company of other chickens.... having 2 sick with it at once is a blessing as they motivate each other to eat and fight it. Isolation causes them to get depressed and they eventually give up fighting it. It affects the immune system, so being happy and eating well is very important. I had one last year that was on her side and couldn't get up. I had her in the infirmary which is inside the hen house but through the day she was in there on her own and after a couple of weeks I was on the point of culling her.... she was propped up in a nest and constantly soiling herself etc. O put another lame pullet in with her one day and to my shock and amazement she attacked it, despite being badly disabled. Thankfully, once they sorted out the pecking order they became firm friends and both showed dramatic improvement over the next few months, so that when spring came I was able to put them out on the grass in the sunshine in a cage.... after that improved even more quickly and a month or so later they were gimpy still but free ranging with the flock and even laying the odd egg....just so you know there is hope.

Marek's birds will often be bright eyed and eat well but waste away as the tumours develop. I had to euthanize a legbar cock a few weeks ago that had his first attack a year ago and fully recovered a few days later. He has been absolutely fine for a year but went down with it again a month ago and this time he succumbed. You get to know when to give tlc and when it's time to end their suffering. Usually, if they are keen to eat and show some fight, I will give supportive care.

Anyway let's hope it isn't Marek's but at least you are now reasonably genned up if it is. Hopefully I have answered all your queries on it but shout up if I missed anything. There are several extensive threads about Marek's on this forum and from reading those and talking to other poultry people here in the UK, it seems that the Marek's here is not as virulent, whereas people in the US have lost over 50% (some 100%) of their young birds to it.

Ah I see, I'm in Leicester so pretty central! Hmm I see, so if it is marek's then my flock have all been exposed to it and would all be carriers... My cream legbars are my latest addition to the flock - and they came as chicks from a CL breeder. If it is marek's then my cockerel is probably what caused the outbreak, this is good to know for future situations.

I'll have to monitor the other hens, and check her wings for lameness. Should I separate her from the flock? She would be without her flockmates & rooster (who she grew up with and hangs out with), although in her current run there are 4-5 foot objects (a tiny coop, branches etc) that she may try to fly onto and hurt herself, although i did see her on them this morning, and later on around noon she was limping when I let them roam the garden.

Can an outbreak in one bird cause an outbreak in another? Or is it just the common environment e.g. immature rooster that causes several to break out at once?

Ah, sounds like the english marek's isn't "as bad", but it still sounds horrible... I guess I will just have to wait and see.

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions in so much detail!

 

[tobit]

Hi. How old is she and was she vaccinated for Marek's Disease when she hatched? Marek's is an extremely common virus in chickens which often shows initially as lameness or wing paralysis. It is a herpes type virus and outbreaks are often triggered by stress.... at this time of year it can be persistent attention from a rooster or just the hormone changes as they come into lay. It affects mostly birds under a year old. There are many other symptoms and some chickens die suddenly and without showing any real sign of illness, whilst others start with asymmetric paralysis of limbs or neck. Keeping them calm, happy, well fed and stress free is the best treatment in my experience.... as there is currently no accepted medical treatment. The bird may improve or even completely recover, but may succumb to a second or even third attack. It is a heart breaking disease and some forms are much more virulent than others. Thankfully my flock has a less aggressive strain but I have still lost a few birds to it..

Other possibilities are vitamin deficiency and it certainly can't do any harm to give her a vitamin supplement.

Good luck with her and the rest of your flock.

Also, where would you recommend to buy vitamin supplements (seeing as you're in the UK too)?

 

[tobit]

She seems to be limping slightly more this morning, although I could just be imagining that.. I went out early and lifted her down from the roost so she wouldn't have to jump down. I think I will have to separate her into a small resting area if she continues like this as she just stands on one leg with the other (her right leg) tucked up to her body when she isn't moving, she still looks healthy and inquisitive apart from her limp...

 

[Hholly]

Fingers crossed that it's just a sprain. Sounds like like you have a good plan of action.

 

[tobit]

So I made her a little separate area in a tiny coop we have in the run, but when i put her in her area she ate for a few minutes and then just paced the entrance (she can see the other chickens from inside) until i let her out again... Hrmph. Another observation is that sometimes she her steps are nearly normal, but on other occasions she "jumps" as soon as she puts pressure on her poorly leg/foot - as if she is in pain maybe?

 

[tobit]

If she is pacing in the small coup, put her back in where she is happiest. Pacing means she is stressed and if it is Marek's that will make her worse, If it is a sprain, the pacing will also aggravate it, so sounds like she may be best back in with her flock mates. You have to figure out what works best in your situation and set up.

I have to say, I am hopeful it may not be Marek's if she appears to be in pain. That's the only good thing about the disease.... they get frustrated with their inability to control their bodies but they never really seem to be in pain.

I can't advise on vitamins I'm afraid as I've never used them because I'm not convinced they work for Mareks and it's pretty clear that's what I have. If you want to try human vitamins get ones without iron. But feeding foods like scrambled eggs, fish and yoghurt will provide many essential vitamins and minerals as well as protein to support them through their illness.

Yes that's precisely what I've done, she's back in with her flock. Well I'll keep a close eye on her and see if there are any changes. Ah okay, I'll see what I can do find!

 

[tobit]

No change this morning. When should I think about taking her to the vet?