List of oldest U.S. chicken breeds. Is it correct?

[bbishop]

Some English breeds like buff Orpington marans buff Cochins also some game hens jersey giants and delwares hamburgrs

 

[Bullitt]

Dominque barred rock red rocks rir wyandottes red stars jersey giants

What are you saying? Red Stars, or Red Sex-Link, are a hybrid cross. I do not know about Red Rocks, but I am guessing they are a variety of Plymouth Rock.

The others are on the list.

 

[Bullitt]

Some English breeds like buff Orpington marans buff Cochins also some game hens jersey giants and delwares hamburgrs

This is a list of U.S. breeds. I do not understand what you are talking about.

 

[The Yakima Kid]

According to information I have seen California Gray was developed in the 1930s.

Number 10 on my list is Holland, which was developed in the 1930s. Can you show me documentation of which breed was first?

I think California Gray was not recognized by the APA because it looks like a Barred Leghorn. From everything I have read, they are the same.

I am going to have to look up Lamona. I am not familiar with that one.

You need to read further. B^) The California Gray was produced using White Leghorns and Barred Rocks by Professor Dryden as a continuation of his work at OAC after his retirement. Even cursory inspection reveals that the breed is very clearly not a "Barred Leghorn." It is a larger, calmer, dual purpose breed that lays a white egg. It is much more cold hardy. Even today California Gray cocks are crossed on White Leghorns to produce California Whites, a tough, hardy white egg layer for pastured poultry operations. The cross lays more than the California Gray, and is hardier and more easily managed than the White Leghorn.

Dryden focused on the holy grail of American poultry farmers in the first half of the 20th Century, a calm, white egg laying, dual purpose chicken that was hardy and easily managed.

 

[The Yakima Kid]

Javas are shown in the American class today, right?

Modifying breeds continues all the time.

Many old-timers will say "Dominickers" when they really mean Barred Plymouth Rock. No doubt there was some mixing there.

Due to the decision of a New York poultry show on the definition of what made a bird a Dominique, many of the larger and/or single-combed Dominiques instantly became Plymouth Rocks. B^)

The reduction in maximum size probably did serious damage to the bird as a farm bird.

 

[The Yakima Kid]

It's kind of like including Cornish in the English class, but it is what it is. Whatever makes the Java a Java is Asiatic, and there's great value in that, meaning that it directs toward clarity. First of all, European breeds lay white or tinted eggs--without exception. Any modern European breed that lays brown eggs does so because of Asiatic importation. The entire body structure of the Java is Asiatic. Reading the various histories, one realizes that there is a long duration of time between the points of importation and standardization where there is much ambiguity and nomenclatural indifference between Javas and Black Cochins.

On the contrary, the Dominique is distinctly European. The entire structure of the breed's type cries Europe. It's probably a misnomer, though, to talk about "developing" Dominiques; it would probably make more sense to discuss them as "emerging" out of colonization efforts in a fairly random fashion. The brown egg, by definition is something that would have come later to the game by sheer force of space and time.


The renewed interest in the old breeds is coming with new twists; indeed, imagination is helping to birth new relevance, in some cases, for the first time. Dominiques were common, but they were also commonplace. People who were into chickens qua chickens raised the more established breeds that were recognized not only for utility but for beauty. Javas were a stepping stone breed that raised its head during the cloud of emerging farm stock that happened through the process of mixing Asiatic and European bloodlines. As that nebulousness began to clear the Barred Plymouth Rock eclipsed both of them, being generally held as the most beautiful. If there's something unique that the Java can offer now, it's in the Mottled variety, because it is the only larger mottled large fowl, which, were people to raise them seriously, could be a very beautiful bird. The Buckeye was nothing more than a sound bite on the blip of history, and the last decade or so has seen it become this undeniable presence. These three breeds may currently be enjoying the most attention that they have ever received. It's framed within the guise of respecting the past, but really it comes down to a statement about the spirit of the present. There are four American breeds of extended, multifaceted consequence: the Plymouth Rock, the Wyandotte, the Rhode Island Red, and the New Hampshire. These are easily the most developed and the most perfected. These are the American breeds that made American breeds some of the most respected poultry on the planet. Their history is enduring, long-lasting, and layered. The other American breeds apart from these seven tend to be redundant. They never were popular and probably never will be so.

The Dominique lays a brown egg; which hardly makes it a "distinctly European" bird. It seems to originate from what was found in the family chicken coop - including additions of surplus "living food" brought back on ships that traded all around the world.

Plymouth Rocks did not displace Javas and Dominiques because of their beauty. Rocks are larger than Dominiques, and provide a larger carcass for meat; and Rocks mature and grow more rapidly than Javas, meaning less feed and less time before a bird is either laying or ready for the table. At the beginning of the 20th Century, the advice to poultry farmers from many in such occupations as the Poultry Science departments and the Bureau of Animal Industries was that if the farmer intended to egg ranch he needed white Leghorns, and if he intended to raise dual purpose or meat birds, he should confine his attention to Plymouth Rocks, Rhode Island Reds, and White Wyandottes.

There have been two distinct strains in poultry raising sense the days of the "Cochin Craze" or "Hen Fever." One has been to breed for appearance; the other has been the effort of farmers, raisers, and later agricultural colleges to produce more meat and eggs with little or no attention to looks.

The Holy Grail of American poultry men in the first half of the 20th Century was to produce a white egg laying yellow skinned bird as Americans preferred white eggs and yellow skinned table birds. In Britain, the Holy Grail of poultry men was a brown egg layer with a white skin to reflect British preferences. Few people realize that until the 1950s, the British were more likely to see rabbit than chicken on their tables. A breed that is considered British is the AmRock, essentially the result of the importation of utility Barred Rocks that did not reflect the British standard for Plymouth Rocks but these birds were prized by farmers for their productivity. In Britain, the niche filled here by Barred Rocks apparently was heavily occupied by the AmRock,.

If you read the origins of many contemporary British and European breeds, one finds that judicious additions of American dual purpose birds was used I their final development.

The Cornish (sometimes called Indian Game) isn't considered an Asian breed since it apparently resulted from the crossing of British game birds with imported game fowl. The goal was to produce a superior fighting chicken for cocking - but what the result had the wrong shape for fighting and a great shape for eating.

 

[Bullitt]

You need to read further. B^) The California Gray was produced using White Leghorns and Barred Rocks by Professor Dryden as a continuation of his work at OAC after his retirement. Even cursory inspection reveals that the breed is very clearly not a "Barred Leghorn." It is a larger, calmer, dual purpose breed that lays a white egg. It is much more cold hardy. Even today California Gray cocks are crossed on White Leghorns to produce California Whites, a tough, hardy white egg layer for pastured poultry operations. The cross lays more than the California Gray, and is hardier and more easily managed than the White Leghorn.

Dryden focused on the holy grail of American poultry farmers in the first half of the 20th Century, a calm, white egg laying, dual purpose chicken that was hardy and easily managed.

OK, I added California Gray. It seems he started in 1908. So the breed should really be called Oregon Grays, but he didn't start his commercial operation until he moved to California.

I have read about California Grays before. I know they are supposed to be dual-purpose chickens, but everything I see shows them to be the same size as Leghorns.

This website states for California Grays, "Weight: Female-4.5 lb. Male-5.5 lb. "

http://www.strombergschickens.com/product/California-Grey-Chicks/Chickens-Chicks

Leghorns are 6 pounds for roosters and 4 1/2 pounds for hens.

As I said, I can't see any difference between California Grays and Barred Leghorns, and I think that is why the California Gray was not accepted by the APA.

Maybe California Grays are smaller today than they were in the 1930s. I don't know.

 

[The Yakima Kid]

OK, I added California Gray. It seems he started in 1908. So the breed should really be called Oregon Grays, but he didn't start his commercial operation until he moved to California.

I have read about California Grays before. I know they are supposed to be dual-purpose chickens, but everything I see shows them to be the same size as Leghorns.

This website states for California Grays, "Weight: Female-4.5 lb. Male-5.5 lb. "

http://www.strombergschickens.com/product/California-Grey-Chicks/Chickens-Chicks

Leghorns are 6 pounds for roosters and 4 1/2 pound for hens.

As I said, I can't see any difference between California Grays and Barred Leghorns, and I think that is why the California Gray was not accepted by the APA.

Maybe California Grays are smaller today than they were in the 1930s. I don't know.

I don't know if they were ever presented to the APA for admission; Dryden died in an accident within a few years and was no longer around to promote them, and he was not pleased with the APA focus on appearance to the exclusion of utility. (He has a great deal to say about the detrimental effect of appearance breeding on productivity in his book written in 1916; he used the example of the White Faced Black Spanish which had once been a popular white egg layer in the United States, complete with pictures of the expansion of the white area on the face and a discussion of the decline in productivity.)

There are significant differences in behavior, hardiness, and ease of handling, along with some subtle differences in shape. Ease of handling and behavior were very important to poultrymen in the era before debeaking and laying cages - Leghorn losses from cannibalism under the best of management could run 10% or more. Debeaking wasn't invented until the 1930s - and in the earliest form involved two separate rounds of temporary trimming that allowed the beak to grow back - one shortly after hatch, the other at point of lay, since those are the two periods where cannibalism is generally most likely to break out. It is, and was, a labor intensive and very unpleasant task, so a bird that was non-cannibalistic had distinct advantages before hatcheries shipped permanently debeaked birds to the poultryman's door.

 

[Bullitt]

There are significant differences in behavior, hardiness, and ease of handling, along with some subtle differences in shape.

This may be true. I am guessing it would take an experienced eye to be able to determine the difference.

So the California Gray and the Barred Leghorn are the same general weight and size? I do not understand why California Gray would be called a dual-purpose breed, then.

Again, I think that would be a problem if someone tried to get the California Gray recognized by the APA.

 

[The Yakima Kid]

It is very important to remember that the interests of the practical poultrymen and the APA have long been separate. At one time, the APA was the national organization that practical poultrymen belonged to, and a leading promoter of poultry industries. Today it is simply an organization for showmen, the practical poultrymen having long since founded organizations directed to practical production and use of poultry.

It is a good exercise to read the APA journals of the 1950s, where the APA promised that those farmers who are true to the standard will eventually triumph over those who had moved on to breeding for practical traits and were no longer viewing the APA standard as a major goal of breeding decisions. It didn't happen. With the exception of some pastured operations, few of those who actually make their entire living raising poultry use one of the APA breeds, let alone one that conforms to the standards. If they do use an APA breed, it is likely a Barred or White Plymouth Rock, or RIR or NH, or a White Leghorn whose conformity to the standard is apt to be an accident instead of a goal. California Grays seem to have revived as pastured poultry egg operations have expanded - even though they lay a little less than White Leghorns, they are easy to manage, and an important trait in pastured operations is being able to get close enough to the birds to evaluate their condition and health without exhausting oneself.

In the days before vent sexing, Barred Rocks and California Grays offered another advantage not well understood today; with most strains, if you know the "secret" regarding the sizes and shapes of the light head patches on dried, hatched chicks, you can sex them with maybe 80% - 90% accuracy if you are really, really, good at it with the particular strain on hand.

My focus is practical, and my raising conditions, with the exception of the materials I used to build the housing and enclosures, Marek's immunizations, and the availability of modern formulated feeds, aren't that different than in the early 20th Century household poultry yard. They live in a coop and run in the backyard, where the run is turned and limed periodically to keep down the parasite load. They roam the garden beds before planting and after harvest, and in the spring they are let out among the fruit trees to harvest pest larvae trying to climb the trunks. They have names, and have been handled not only because I foolishly and accidentally turned them into pets, but for ease of care and inspection. They are soiled with items grown specifically for them in the garden, and they eat trimmings and left overs from the people food (I don't feed them ruminant ingredients because of AHA guidelines.) I use neem oil and pyrethrins instead of tobacco dust, fluoride compounds, and other long obsolete and extremely deadly to people pesticides. The birds most suited for my use are the breeds that were bred to thrive in such conditions - which means mainly old-fashioned American dual purpose, some British breeds, and Black-Star hybrids. I include the California Gray as an old style American dual purpose.

I know nothing about showing poultry, although I have shown hogs and horses. My selections are based on vigor, hardiness, temperament, and productivity. Just as in 19th C and early 20th C backyard poultry coops, my birds must be calm, quiet, and not upsetting to the neighbors. They must be able to withstand the occasional stray animal or yelling child in the backyard without panicking and injuring themselves, or losing production. They should withstand both high and low temperatures, and they should lay well throughout the year without needing supplemental lighting if it can possibly be avoided. Robert Plamondon and Joel Salatin are more relevant to me than an APA judge or the standard.

www.plamondon.com is the ultimate website on raising pastured poultry and earning enough to support your family and send your children to college on the income. He notes that with the exception of medications and pesticides, the books written before about 1950 are far more useful to the pastured poultry operator than both more recent books which focus on intensive indoor management or the APA.